Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

Well at the very least - being a bit too young to remember it myself - I've heard thatcher referred to as a man in drag

mirialis - I suspect it was often a homophobic slur (not a real woman = not interested in (my) cock)

Or to try to dismiss politicians like Thatcher as "ball breakers" and unfeminine therefore "not a real woman"

It's a useful deflecting technique: when a woman says something you don't agree with, attack the speaker not the sentiment

Sorry to be so thick and naive but:

“don’t you remember back in the 80’s when they constantly used to say of any female politician they didn’t agree with – usually Tory women - that they’re not real women?”

what did they mean when they said that in the context of the 80s?

Always a shock when misogyny comes into plain sight - from people you thought had your back.

Right! I'm off to make my sons clean their bloody bedrooms! No more mummy-maid for them!

Yes, there have been threads on FWR before about the deep-seated misogyny of the far left. It's still a shock when we see it re-appear before us, though

The Guardian is very pro-trans and self ID and have been publishing endless flag waving articles supporting the medical intervention in the lives of young people with ID issues.

It’s why I’ve cancelled the money I send them as well as to labour.it doesn’t mean I’ve suddenly started reading the Torygraph and voting for May.

Olenna, I think JJ had initially contacted Rhea Wolfson (NEC member) who subsequently made a statement on the legal position after an equalities sub-committee meeting.

Wolfson wrote:

"The position was clarified that transwomen with a Gender Recognition Certificate are welcome and encouraged to stand in AWS, as per the legislation".

Which is what we expected, that self-identifying transwomen cannot stand for AWS.

And then Wolfson withdrew that statement afterwards pending clarification.

Wolfson definitely did give the initial statement. It is on the crowdfunder page. Update number 6.

Kazzabites - very interesting post. I'm pretty sure you're right - depressing as it is.

I subscribe to The Times cheap package (the one they offer you when you go to cancel your subscription after the free trial) and support The Guardian for roughly the same amount - I can afford it and think it's important to have a balance and I don't want the cash-strapped Guardian to go down the pan but it's disappointing that they are doing this. I wonder if they would let some more critical articles creep in if labour women really do start to actually show they are leaving over this issue.

The Times = Rupert Murdock.

the youth vote and student activism more than they need women.

Overlap?

Just subscribed to Times too, though was never a Guardianista.

Hadley Freeman has been quite good on Twitter about self-id but generally The Guardian has been very pro-trans. I used to be a Guardian reader but I've subscribed to The Times in support of Janice Turner on self-id.

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve peaked and more and am now looking down on Mount Everest. For a while now I’ve been just fuming about the transgender thing, seeing it in isolation, but then this morning after ranting to a friend about what I’d been reading on this thread, somebody said something to me that really made me think.

She was sort of smiling about the whole thing – not in a nasty way, but more of a “didn’t you get it? I got it years ago” kind of way, and then she pointed out that many men on the left have always had a problem with what they see as a kind of biological essentialism of which they ideologicaly disaprove. Think the Soviet ‘scientist’ Victor Lysenko trying to re-educate wheat to grow in unsuitable climates.

She pointed out that these sections of the left have been denying the existance of women when it suited them for years. When I asked her what she meant by this, she replied “don’t you remember back in the 80’s when they constantly used to say of any female politician they didn’t agree with – usually Tory women - that they’re not real women?” And she was right. I sat through so many meetings where I heard this shit. It rankled then, and in truth it’s rankled ever since.

Womanhood isn’t something that the left can use as a tool when it suits them, it’s something that just is. It’s XX not XY, and IT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE! If they want to disagree with a woman because they don’t like her politics, fair enough. But too many times now I’ve heard them deny that she even is a woman. The whole trans thing just seems to me to be an extension of this: Don’t like what women think? Easy solution – make new women.

And after watching the video posted by GirlScout72, that it was Donald Trump who scrapped the guidance on gender identity regarding Title IX in the US should serve as a lesson. We need to let them know just how far we are prepared to go. Anything less than all the way and we will be walked over. I’m no fan of Trumps, but a stopped clock is right twice a day as they say.

SerciteEland “TBH now I'm a bit worried that her whole GoFundMe campaign has been a Corbyn backed operation the whole time, designed to demoralize those of us who are actually against self-ID. I can be paranoid though, but it is a worry with politics being the way it is these days...”

Interesting thought there. I wouldn’t call that paranoid myself, Nino Maciavelli said that if you want to know who is conspiring against you, then you should set up a conspiracy and see who joins.

Hi Jennifer

I hope you are ok and looking after yourself and I'm endlessly grateful for your work in opposing AWS and shining a light on the issues of self id

I don't want another Tory government and I will never vote for them. But unless JC reverses his stance on this I will not vote Labour again. I admire many of his views but he is not infallible and this issue is too important for me.

I am politically homeless as all the main parties support this madness. It is very sad and frustrating.

Is this where JJ got her information that the NEC were on the brink of issuing a statement a few weeks back?

(Tip: don't watch the "6 things transgender women want you to know" video at the bottom of the page, unless you need to raise your blood pressure)

I really don't mind the 'cult of the personality' thing as long as 'the personality' is enacting the correct measures and winning elections....which JC by polls evidence is failing to do, despite sooo many Tory own goals.

I'd tend to think JC hasn't given the consequences of self i-d much head space and dismisses it as only affecting a few people and doesn't wish to lose the younger voter over such a small electoral favour. (That's not to say I have any faith that when the light is switched on for him he won't still not nod his head along in an 'inclusive' ticket).

Yeah, I'm not disappointed in the Tories because I had no expectation of decent behavior from them in the first place. I'm angry with Maria Miller, but disappointment is something you only feel towards people who you didn't expect to act like arseholes.

*I am a signed-up "supporter" of The Guardian but I don't read it much at the moment.

What have they said on the issue?*

On the list of papers I would rather clean dogshit off my boots with than read, the Guardian & the Independent are now joint top. They are actively misogynist & champion the likes of Lily Madigan & Owen Jones.

He doesn't care, if he did he'd have done something already. it speaks volumes that he hasn't. So let's forget him and crack on with winning this thing by any and all means necessary.

This, I wholeheartedly agree with. It's clear to me that the Labour leadership have made the calculation that they need the youth vote and student activism more than they need women. When they're proved wrong, it won't be the fault of women.

BTW I'm sure Jennifer is a good person, and painful as it is, maybe it's good she has her lesson in the dangers of political naivete now rather than later.

Labour have dumped her, she's behaving like a codependent woman, trying to win him back. He doesn't care, if he did he'd have done something already. it speaks volumes that he hasn't. So let's forget him and crack on with winning this thing by any and all means necessary.

Red

That's a great document, thanks. Definitely going to vote NONE if this doesn't change.

Going to put it on twitter

How about

#VoteNONEagainstGenderSelfID ?

I'm more likely on here to write more of my disappointment with the Labour Party than with the other parties, because, basically, I expect better of them. I expect the Tories to be utter shits. I expect the Lib Dems to be useless. I grew up being inspired by some really amazing Labour women activists, second-wavers who taught me what feminism means, and I hate what the party is doing to shit all over their memories and work. Basically, I expect better from my friends than I do my enemies, and I am more angry when my friends stab me in the back than I am when my enemies do so.

Yes! This!

mirialis - the Guardian and the Independent have drunk the Kool Aid and bought shares in it. Disgustingly so. The Times and - to a lesser degree - the Telegraph have been prepared to publish gender critical pieces, the Spectator is the new one to the fold.

No worries, but this is far bigger than Jennifer and really has very little to do with Jeremy Corbyn.

And perhaps if we had some allies on the left we wouldn't be in this pickle. sad to say I'd far rather a right wing sexist over a left wing one, at least the right winger agrees I bloody well exist.

The tories need the right wing press, if that means they drop this lunacy all to the good. If they then decide to make hay with it that's on Mr Corbyn and the reams of lefty dude bros currently shutting us up.

GirlScout72

Apologies. Really. I meant something accessible and not too scary. I know women have been out there organising and often at great personal cost and risk. I didn't mean to be glib about that or elide it.

Sorry!