The word 'Ladies'

But the patronising folk have just moved on to "guys" ime: language shifts.

I don't mind it I often say say thank you to the lady/ man to my 2yo toddler twins as otherwise they say "thank you mummy" when I say "say thank you" :) It can be kid of sleazy when done by blokes but there is generally a sleazy undertone or intention anyway which is what gets your back up. Get out of the way of that person feels oddly rude to me. Like your failing to see them as an individual somehow.

Thinking about this blokes middle aged and younger are referred to as man/ men but older is gentleman/ men so I'm probably agist to boot :)

I wonder if there is a bit of a generation gap with how "lady/ladies" is perceived.

If you've been raised to consider lady polite and woman rude I can quite understand why you think there is no problem. (Although I never understood why "man" is not similarly considered rude)

However I grew up with "lady" and "ladylike" being used to police female behaviour.

Eg It's unladylike to drink pints/get drunk/wear revealing clothing/sit with your knees apart/express a strong opinion/climb trees and so on.

I very rarely heard men being described as ungentlemanlike Interestingly my spellcheck recognises unladylike but not ungentlemanlike

As a result there was a bit of a backlash to being called a "lady" as in no "I'm not demure, prim, quiet or whatever"

Personally I'm not offended by being referred to as a lady but similarly I'm not offended by being called a "woman" However I can be irritated by "Ladies, insert patronising statement here" and will respond with "I'm not a lady" when it's being used to enforce a sexist standard of behaviour.

On the other hand, adults referring to other adults as 'lady' when talking to a small child is a lot more respectful than 'woman'. As in, 'get out the way of that lady'.

We could start saying, "get out of the way of that person," and doing things like that miht get children thinking about people as people, rather than specifically as a man or woman, which isn't the main factor when saying thank you or being in the way.

Lady is polite. What is the issue with lady? The male equivalent to lady is gentleman or Sir - is this also offensive?

If it were exactly equivalent, it would be fine. But it's not - upthread there are examples of, "say thank you to the man, say thank you to the lady." It's not "say thank you to the gentleman," nor "say thank you to the woman."

If they're directly equivalent, it would be "ladies and gentlemen", and "men and women" - if we are talking about saying them together, it usually is. "Men and ladies" or "Gentlemen and women" both sound odd because they're not equivalent terms.

It is not the biggest issue, but most of us are capable of thinking about more than one thing, so it's not a problem.

Doesn’t bother me in the slightest as I think generally it’s just a figure of speech. I was just called a good girl for loading up the shopping of a mature chap in the supermarket, by the chap himself. I’m well over 40. I found it sweet

With the children I used "thank the kind lady/ gentleman" and tbh even now they are teens I think I use it with them in a "lady in the cafe" situation. If I'm in a "woke", vegan- enabled establishment I grunt like everyone else. I may even do a Trudeauesque "the person at the counter."

'Ladies' sounds patronising to me. It's often said with a sneer - fake respect.

On the other hand, adults referring to other adults as 'lady' when talking to a small child is a lot more respectful than 'woman'. As in, 'get out the way of that lady'.

Doesn't "say thank you to the woman" sound a bit off?

Hows about 'say thank you'?

To whom though? How to you propose we indicate the person to whom the 'thank you' is to be addressed, shall we point (rude) or we just hope the child guesses right?

'Woman' is rude. 'Person' also rude implies that you aren't sure what they are (which I would find really offensive as a tall woman who has spent her life with people addressing me incorrectly when I'm in their peripheral vision/they have got their eyes down to the till etc then being mortified when they look up!). Lady is polite. What is the issue with lady? The male equivalent to lady is gentleman or Sir - is this also offensive? Are we not allowed to be recognised as being female in case it offends someone. Look at Justin Trudeau's recent 'peoplekind' gaffe. It's a fucking minefield.

There are so many things in the world to be offended about, some of which are important & becoming offended by literally everything minimises the impact of the important things. For me Lady/Ladies is fine - let's look elsewhere for problems (plenty of them about...).

Lady is a polite or formal way of addressing a woman, I can't even begin to imagine a situation where I would be angry about being called a 'lady'.
Doesn't this thread just seems so pedantic and ridiculous compared to real issues?

I think that we can all agree that the tone and context are the most important.

Would I find it manipulative/derogatory if a child/carer pointed at me and said "lady". No.

Would I get offended by the term "ladies" if used in a patronising tone? ie "ladies, can you give all men notice on what is okay to call you as we are not psychic." Yes.

I just read the post about "hi ladies" to counter the cloying "hi guys". I love that.

'Boys will be boys' isn't this a caddishness deserving of no more than a clip round the ear and a free pass?
'MEN are disgusting this again is a bit slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails - giving males and free pass to do wtf they want no matter how unpleasant it is for others? Eg- making their partner sit in their stinky fart cloud rather than doing it politely in the bathroom.

Both are said with a kind of fondness.

Unless of course it is discussing the genuine violence and depravity overwhelmingly exhibited by the male sex- in that case it is more 'description' rather than insult isn't it?

I agree about "guys" AntArctic - makes me shudder- because it's normally accompanied by a twat.

goo.gl/images/Gvskor

Now not know.

I can't stand autocorrect either..

I never liked it.

But I know find myself irritated by " guys". It's ubiquitous in speech where I am. To me it grates.

So really I think it's all unreasonable of us to allow these words to irritate us.

After all both are better than "Oi, bastards!" Which is how I feel like greeting people quite often...

If you don’t like the word fine but please tell people this beforehand as all men are not physic or hang out on Mumsnet and have no idea this is even a thing

Can we just leave words like 'bitch' 'slut' and 'whore' as offensive terms and all just admit the word 'ladies' is not offensive

Doesn't bother me either better than some of the things you can be called
Life's far too short to worry about it

@GuardianLions you could say that for male terms too,
'Boys will be boys'
'MEN are disgusting'
These are all used quite commonly and hear/see them being used but no one says these words are offensive?

Why do people have to be so precious, they're just words, and especially the word 'ladies' which is usually used respectively

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I find it odd that some people deem it offensive.

All words for women are put downs and terms of abuse.
"Girl! " as in 'don't be a girl
"Woman!" as in 'that WOMAN!' (Fil v fond of that one)
"Lesbian" - needs no comment
"Lady" as in hey Lady!?!
"Mothers" - said with patronising contempt as in - "I bet that was 'mothers' protesting against those advances in gm".

Etc, etc. Misogyny innit?

I like it and love being addressed in that way. I was always taught that it is rude to refer to a female as 'woman'! I hate 'girls' and 'guys' though.

I don't have an issue with 'ladies' or 'girls'.