Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

This Twitter thread by the wonderful Karen Ingala Smith is worth a quick read, on the issue of leaving the Labour Party over self-ID

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/918897/Jeremy-Corbyn-transgender-LGBTQ-self-identification-Mumsnet-Labour

If they banned straight white men but allowed straight white transmen, could they be accused of transphobia for saying there's a difference?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5391313/Labour-rebuked-equalities-commission-AGAIN.html

"Labour has been rebuked by the equalities commission again after banning heterosexual white men from a conference."
"The Equality and Human Rights Commission (ECHR) has warned the restrictions would flout the law unless there is a good reason for it.
And they have written to party bosses demanding an explanation for the ban on straight, white men attending."

"Their intervention comes after Tory MP Andrew Bridgen has written to the Equality and Human Rights Commission to ask them to investigate whether the entry rules added up to 'discrimination'."

Wonder if anyone has written about self ID for AWS

Most of the general public are unaware or have no view.

Right. Let's all tell three people this week.

Hello AskBasil. I have been a reader of your blog of some time now, and I thank you for it.

Thanks Italiangreyhound.

I just can't believe that this dystopian nonsense is mainstream BBC fodder. How quickly it has become orthodoxy. I wrote a blog post about it:

Watching the masses manipulated

The thing with Labour that everyone acknowledges is the large margin by which they are winning the social media war, despite spending that is way below the Tories. This may turn out to be a mixed blessing vis a vis the trans issue, because they have managed to turn so many supporters onto online politics. Those people will see the trans stuff before everyone else. They will be exposed to all the narcissistic rage before everyone else. And many Labour supporters, however staunch, are going to say... hang on a minute, WTF?

I am heartened that a handful of staunch "I've voted Labour all my life" people are fuming as they become aware of the impact of Self ID. I've steered them over here for a read and Lurk. Never voting for them again while Corbyn is there was one comment.

The best bit? They're men.

The labour party political broadcasts are very clever and ONLY mention the NHS and Tory cuts.
Not even a hint or whisper about the whole trans issue.
Most of the general public are unaware or have no view.

This continues to be my question and I would like it if leadership would answer it would answer it.
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

I'm also in a marginal seat, has swung between Lab and Con for the last few elections. I don't fancy Labour's chances here if women withdraw their support.

I’m in a labour swing seat. Won’t be voting for them again wrt self-ID. No one who has treated me badly because I’m a woman gave a shit about what I felt inside about myself.

Reality you got there before me!

And just a quick tangent, in some hunter/gatherer communities, that have been studied by anthropologists, the calorific value of the food gathered by women far outweighs that of the meat brought in by male groups. That's largely environment dependent and hunting and meat brought in by men, may have important ritual or social significance and not just be about food. (Am tempted to say. because.men. but I won't).

Just going back to pollster Peter Kellner's "brave" speculation: Hunter-gatherers vs Home-makers, wut?

Hunter-gatherers were men and women. Those are two completely different human cultures he's describing there. Nomadic vs settled.

As you were...

that's why labour isn't listening to its women (or any other centrists) because they don't really believe they'll lose our support when it comes to the crunch.

the thing is, like the last election, there are an awful lot of women that usually vote labour that will not be able to bring themselves to vote for the tories - I believe I was one of the few that in the end did vote for the tories at the last election because of Corbyn's policies and tactics, but many of my family and DH's who are sickened by Corbyn and momentum still voted labour due to the idea that maybe he'd become more moderate if he got in and they were supporting their local labour people.

I can't see Corbyn being moderated by the moderates he's got left - absolutely NO EVIDENCE of this happening - can't see how he'll be more likely to listen if he actually gets in.

@YTho "I'm saddened that anyone would consider sacrificing NHS, education etc over this issue. Even with self Id, if it was pushed through, I believe those things would still help women and girls."

We should not have to sacrifice the NHS to have the right to not be forced to accept self-Id. So very many young women are suffering now with body dysphoria, wanting to bind their breasts or have them removed. Somehow someone has to fight back against all this madness. It doesn't just affect middle aged men. Ot's young girls as well. We need to celebrate Gender non-conforming.

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole I really hope you will get your PIP sorted out and I admire your firm stance on this issue. Your daughter is lucky to have a mum who wants to advice for her.

@BarrackerBarmer excellent post equating the new ideology of trans with a religion, it is all based on what you believe. I am a Christian, I have a religion but I don't expect others to agree with it or believe it, or be sanctioned for not believing in it!

Just found out what a sea lion is! Thank you urban dictionary!

wondermark.com/1k62/

But I will say that others can read too and even sea lions have their uses when lurkers read the well reasoned answers of you terrific women!

@OlennasWimple "Don't spoil your ballot - no one reads it - no one publishes what you write on it - no message is transmitted. They just count up the spoiled papers and that's it

This isn't true.

You can choose to publicize your spoilt ballot paper like these Tweeters did in 2012"

metro.co.uk/2017/06/08/what-is-a-spoilt-ballot-paper-how-best-to-spoil-your-vote-6693656/

I clicked on the link and the first picture I saw a ballot paper with a penis drawn on it. How very apt!

Out of interest, is there a minimum % threshold of the popular vote needed for a party to form the government?

Maybe a #Labourlosingyouth hashtag is needed to drive the point home.

Incidentally, if representatives of other partiess are reading feeling smug, don’t be. None of you are any more credible.

Posters here are so much better at writing and articulating the arguments than I am.
If posters here could draft something concise I would happily send it to my MP.
I am getting more anxious and enraged by this every day, but many women/people are completely unaware.

Such a fab tweet. I’m not in twitter but I hope it gets lots more retweets, it deserves to be seen by someone at the Labour Party.

I’ll also admit I didn’t know what “Cotton ceiling” meant. I’m utterly shocked and disgusted. I wonder again if Corbyn et al, know the meaning of this phrase?

I want to see someone asking him what he thinks about it!

"10/ More and more young voters are opening their eyes to this, for the very reason you think we vote labour. We ARE progressive, we ARE open-minded, we ARE accepting. We AREN’T homophobic. We DON’T blindly follow dogma. We DO accept gender noncomforming people."

Fab tweet thread from a young gay woman:

twitter.com/antisjwprogay/status/963596666778607617?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1

@Destinysdaughter and @LangCleg

Just reading inspiring stuff from Bea Jaspert and Kristine Harrison. I've not heard of her before but she's making massive sense.

Kristina is tweeting on Bea's (Page, thread, what do you call it?). Kristina is a trans woman and saying some excellent things about history judging those who undermine women's rights. She also wants to fight against transphobia and wants equality but from a good place. It all sounds really great and is a breath of fresh air after so much guff! I don't want to be against trans people at all. I want to support them. But I don't want to be forced to lie and say I believe they are the sex they say they are when I know you cannot change biological sex.

Rather than just spoiling ballot papers should those planning to do so not write to their party, which ever it is, to say this is what they will do if self id comes in? Or if there is no robust exploration of this or whatever wording is useful?

@AskBasil I got a little chill reading your rant. In a good way!

"Here's the thing.

I don't want transexual male women on all women's shortlists either.

They should have trans shortlists. Any political space taken by transexuals, must be taken from men, not from women."

Like you say, me too, "5 years ago, I would have automatically accepted that someone who has had an op, should be treated at all times as a woman and I would have suppressed my knowledge that they are not and it's just kindness, not truth, to pretend they are. But now - no, I will not submit to this latest form of male supremacist ideology and I will not vote for any party which tells me I must, even at the cost of the NHS, schools, the welfare state. Because if we women are forced to comply with this latest attack on our rights, all those things will be turned against us anyway. We have got to recognise how serious this threat is and show all those politicos how seriously we take it."

Sorry but it was so good I had to repeat it.

I just felt you are touching on something that reminds me of the fight 100 years ago, when women risked everything to get the bloody vote.

Very moving stuff, Basil. And your post at Tue 13-Feb-18 05:45:12. Very clear, and I really agree with you.