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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

609 replies

goodyzoe · 11/02/2018 01:42

"The 3-point fall in the Labour share [in You Gov poll] is entirely explained by a 6-point fall among women (from 46% to 40%)"

CON 43 (+1)
LAB 39 (-3)
LD 8 (+2)

@jenniferjames says "Oh fucking hell. I broke the Labour party. :-( "

I've got very mixed feelings. On the one hand - go everyone! They'll have to take notice - surely?

But - Jesus Christ let's not let the Tories have another term.

But - we have to stick up for ourselves don't we.

Starting to think the people who say the rapid rise in TRA ideology is being fuelled by those who stand to benefit from a divided left might have a point. Sad

www.twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/961537001689370624

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party
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6
boatyardblues · 11/02/2018 11:34

And I don't need a lecture on what spoiling your ballot means either. It's why I have never even contemplated it before in 40-odd years of voting. But this is how angry I am.

Ditto. I’m feeling a bit more chipper today than I have in a while, but I’m furious about this shit and its not getting better. I think the political parties are way off base with this. The lack of loud public debate is because most people have no idea what is proposed. When they get it, they are aghast.

SamPotatoes · 11/02/2018 11:31

I got an email last night from my local labour party urging me to move from a supporter to full member.

Thanks to this thread I was motivated to write rather a long email explaining exactly why that would not happen and that if they persisted in not just ignoring women on the issue but actively harassing those who raised concerns then they could wave goodbye to my vote.

Floisme · 11/02/2018 11:30

And I don't need a lecture on what spoiling your ballot means either. It's why I have never even contemplated it before in 40-odd years of voting. But this is how angry I am.

Cooroo · 11/02/2018 11:29

I have had 2 emails from the Labour Party today. I am not a member. One was from Emily Thornberry, the other from the party asking me to donate today and show solidarity with women and Labour's campaign to take the next steps towards equality.

I replied to both, pointing out that I wouldn't consider donating or joining while their stance on self ID and women only shortlists stays as it is.

Then I wondered why all of a sudden I've been targeted? Could it be because I donated to Jennifer James' campaign? Anyone else?

athingthateveryoneneeds · 11/02/2018 11:27

I live in a very strong Labour area. I doubt I'll ever come across a canvasser.

I'm all for joining The Gender Critical Party. I'll even post leaflets through doors!

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 11/02/2018 11:27

Me too Queen

YTho · 11/02/2018 11:26

Self Id hurts more than cuts? They both hurt women. Both as bad. Perhaps a new party on the trans issue is the best solution. I'd hate for lots of women to not vote or spoil their ballot, effectively letting other people choose for them.

QueenLaBeefah · 11/02/2018 11:24

I've never felt angrier about a political issue in my entire life. How fucking dare they erase women like this? I'm supposed to shrug this off for the "greater good"? Like fuck I will.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 11/02/2018 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnotherCassandra · 11/02/2018 11:14

Did you read the other thread? Disabled women are hurt by Self-ID, they can't go out or access health care. It's the same for certain religious women. Self-ID hurts more than cuts.

Popchyk · 11/02/2018 11:12

That 'one issue' thing annoyed me as well.

It is like asking Jewish voters to just overlook the anti-Semitism and vote for Labour anyway. Because hey, it will be better for non-Jews.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 11/02/2018 11:09

Did it get mentioned on Peston?

noraclavicle · 11/02/2018 11:09

I live in the safest of safe Labour seats, so I don’t think my local MP will be losing much sleep over my vote, but I have written to her. I’ll be interested to see what she says.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 11/02/2018 11:07

Flo

I know this was a few pages back but it really pisses me off when people dismiss something that affects 51% of the population as 'one issue.'

YY to this

One issue? Fuck off to that. It's the rights of half the population being eroded. Not the important half, clearly

Mayday01 · 11/02/2018 11:06

I have always voted Labour, but will not do so while they continue to push the self id, or treat the women in the Party with such disdain.
From the outside looking in, it looks rammed full of brocialists, and perpetually offended bullies.
Even the up and coming young Labour members look ridiculous. Having safe spaces and gender neutral loos at their conference.
It doesn't instill confidence that these sort of people can tackle serious issues or have the emotional resilience that politics needs.
On Twitter I've even seen a poster from Labour going on about self identifying as BAME. I mean, come on!
If the average person on the street sees Labour gobbing off about how a man can change into a woman, and white people can be black people, it looks like hilarious crazy talk, and it will put into question such people being incharge of the NHS and education etc.

Fekko · 11/02/2018 11:00

I think it’s a cumulative thing - blind eyes to sexism, racism and anti Semitism. Policies that are very grand sweeping but pie in which sky and not realistic.

The party has changed a lot since I was a child. It was socialist back then - you didn’t feel like you were a crap bag if you made money. You were motivated to joining there local party and pushing for a fair society. Not it seems more ‘us and them’.

It feels very different from when my dad was involved (70s-90s). I don’t think he would feel welcome nowadays and he was the most ‘fair society’ person you’d ever meet.

Floisme · 11/02/2018 11:00

It really pisses me off to see women here on mn saying they will vote for tories purely because of one issue (trans).
I know this was a few pages back but it really pisses me off when people dismiss something that affects 51% of the population as 'one issue.'

I am sick of being guilt tripped into voting labour. Sick of it. I refuse to vote for a party that not only supports self ID but that also dismisses and silences anyone who dissents.

I'm not going to vote Tory either - quite apart form anything else, they're the ones who initiated the GRA. I imagine a big reason they're backing off is because they haven't got enough of a majority to get the it through on their own and they don't want the humiliation of having to rely on the labour party. I wouldn't put it past them to revive it if they did win again.

What I would support - and I know this isn't the main point of the thread - is a cross party approach to tackling it.

Ereshkigal · 11/02/2018 10:58

I have never felt more strongly on any issue. I have never been more angry than I am now. No party that erases women will ever have my vote.

YY.

birdsdestiny · 11/02/2018 10:48

I may be wrong but I just don't think this is all down to the trans issue. Polls at this time of the election cycle are in a sense meaningless. In the months prior to the GE Labour lost pretty much every local election going. They were loosing council elections in places like Sunderland! If there is a swing I imagine there will be numerous causes. The way the Labour party is being influenced by momentum will be one of them, I also think Corbyn benefited massively from being the underdog. It is very different voting for someone who you think is going to loose, to voting for someone you think may win. I think Theresa May is possibly the one gaining the sympathy vote this time round.

MiaowTheCat · 11/02/2018 10:48

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2018 10:44

I've posted the above on my fb with my reasons for leaving. I've been told I'm narrow minded.

That's fine. They can call you narrow minded. But it doesn't matter if you are a bigot or the most progressive person in the world.

They still need your vote and dismissing you as having 'the wrong opinion' misses the point. Your vote is equally valid.

See Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2018 10:39

Here is the figure comparison (I note it is by gender not sex) for women (unweighted by likelihood to vote)

28th / 29th Jan
CON 28%
LAB 34%
LD 4%
SNP 3%
Other 4%
Would not vote 7%
Don't know 20%

5th / 6th Feb
CON 29%
LAB 28%
LD 6%
SNP 2%
Other 4%
Would not vote 10%
Don't know 21%

If YouGov are right, then this certainly isn't a switch from Lab to the Cons as I suspected. Its about the Don't Knows and the strength of feeling to vote.

I do think we need urge some caution here. There is a margin of error on these figures. However a difference of 6% which seems to have mainly switched over to the will not vote column is bigger than that margin of error.

BUT

You should never just take two polls in isolation. Its whether it shows a long pattern that's the bigger deal.

Here are the previous yougov figures for 7th / 8th Jan which look like this:
CON 26%
LAB 31%
LD 5%
SNP 4%
Other 3%
Would not vote 9%
Don't know 22%

10th / 11th Dec
CON 29%
LAB 33%
LD 5%
SNP 3%
Other 5%
Would not vote 7%
Don't know 19%

4th / 5th Dec
CON 28%
LAB 29%
LD 3%
SNP 3%
Other 5%
Would not vote 12%
Don't know 20%

7th / 8th Nov
CON 25%
LAB 34%
LD 4%
SNP 2%
Other 4%
Would not vote 10%
Don't know 21%

Which puts something of a different angle on things. There isn't an obvious particular pattern.

Pollsters aren't chasing the voters with a clear intention, they are chasing the individuals about what they would do if it came to the crunch. How they calculate that through weighing is the key bit.

YouGov model on the basis of how likely you are to vote on a scale of 1 - 10. So is more

Here's what it looks like weighed excluding those who would not vote and those who don't know.

5th / 6th Feb
CON 44%
LAB 40%
LD 8%
Other 8%

28th / 29th Jan
CON 39%
LAB 46%
LD 6%
Other 8%

7th / 8th Jan
CON 39%
LAB 45%
LD 7%
Other 9%

5th / 6th Feb
CON 40%
LAB 45%
LD 6%
Other 9%

4th / 5th Dec
CON 43%
LAB 42%
LD 4%
Other 11%

7th / 8th Nov
CON 38%
LAB 49%
LD 6%
Other 8%

No obvious pattern here either. To a certain extent it looks like a shift from Lab to Con but its not.

I think what you are seeing is actually a distinct lack of conviction in Labour voters. The Conservative underlying figure is relatively stable. What is changing is how much Labour voters are convinced they will vote and how motivated they are about voting Labour.

And the answer, is not as convinced as the Labour leadership might like. In order to win an election, they will have to stir up feeling and conviction. They did this successfully at the last election with a message of hope and listening to the people when others were not.

That might well be a one trick pony that won't have the same effect a second time around.

Notably, one of the biggest shifts in voting was in middle aged women aged 25 - 49 which swung things last time around. If they are not convinced by Corbyn or think he isn't listening they won't turn out.

And that's where the danger is for Corbyn. He has to get three key groups out in order to win any election: The Under 25s, BAME voters and women aged 25 - 49.

The important thing to remember is that General Elections are won and lost on the Don't Knows and the Won't Votes. How likely someone is to vote is the key. Neither of these groups of figures really breaks that down. You still have 20% of voters classing themselves as Don't Know.

If you want to put the wind up the Labour Party this is why, saying you won't vote is really important. Make them chase your vote and not take it for granted or be classed as a soft 'I'll vote for them if push came to shove'. If you are asked, say a flat 'I will note vote because'.

Tell them why you can not vote for them as much as you can.

THEY NEED YOUR VOTE AND THOSE FIGURES PROVE ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY CONCLUSIVELY: The Labour vote is particularly soft and not set in stone and they need to work harder than the Cons for every single one.

The Cons lost a majority by a total of 72 votes across the country. SEVEN TWO votes cast in the right constituencies cost them dear.

Your vote and more to the point your stated voting intention matter.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 11/02/2018 10:39

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