Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

I have never felt more strongly on any issue. I have never been more angry than I am now. No party that erases women will ever have my vote

This. And not just 'takes self ID temporarily off their manifesto' - which is likely to happen near to an election only to be carried out anyway the second the party is safely in power. Only a party that is decisively and coherently standing up against self ID with a clear rational of women's rights/safeguarding/multiple other reasons is getting my vote.

I'm a floating voter rather than a tribal one and right now there is no way Labour or Lib Dems or WEP are parties I can support. There will be a LOT of reliance in those parties of women voting for the because of the 'bigger picture and not just one issue' or 'I can't in all conscience vote for x'. They believe that women will when the crunch comes, just hold their noses and vote for them anyway. Watch out too for the combination of scares and promised sweeties for women as election time approaches. I'll open the book now that those sweeties will be aimed solely at biological women proving that the parties in question know very well there's a difference in needs and interests when it suits them.

I don't want another five years of the Tory boys club, and Theresa May is another woman under a bus, only allowed power because none of the powerful men were willing to take responsibility for the shit show of Brexit. The second that's done, those men will suddenly don their shining armour and step up to rescue the party from a 'bad leader' and dump the unpopularity on her.

But better five more years of crap but than the end of Women's Rights.
Once this goes on the statute books it will be utter hell to undo. My hope is that if women fight this hard enough we will see the Labour party split, and with luck an actual sensible left and even better, a woman-led and Kool-Aid free party will emerge.

I can't afford to vote for another 5 years of this mess. But we all have to make tough choices I guess.

I know another five years of Tory rule is an horrific prospect. But it's five years. Being unable to measure women in order to help them is forever.

I will never, ever, ever, ever, vote for a political party that has self-ID in its manifesto. Never. Fin.

I also agree with this.

At this point, I would vote Tory if they opposed self-ID.

I am a lifelong Labour voter.

I am not prepared to vote for Labour ATM but I do think retaining party membership and working for a party that recognises and addresses women's concerns regarding the GRA and any reforms is worthwhile.

I don't have a lot of faith but also think no-platforming oneself is not going to help.

My CLP are working on a motion to women’s conference about it (with broad agreement that we’re fine with trans women being on AWS, but not with self id).

I’m less fine with this by the day.

I was happy with it until I understood the breadth of the new trans umbrella, and the rendering meaningless of the word/concept ‘woman’.

I can’t get on board with the fiction and I don’t like the potential real world outcomes.

Corbyn’s personal views are not the same as party policy

Give it time.

LovesLaboursLost,

Corbyn said: "THE POSITION OF THE PARTY is that where you have self-identified as a woman, you are treated as a woman".

Are you saying he is mistaken? Telling lies? What exactly?

That’s the current NEC position on AWS. Not party policy on self id. They’re different things.

She’s been suspended and tbh they don’t give great details over why (ever, not just with her). I suspect she’ll have been suspended due to alleged harassment of an individual (Lily M). You don’t get suspended for opposing party policy anyway.

Corbyn’s personal views are not the same as party policy.

"I don’t know why everyone is pretending these decisions have all been made".

Because Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party said so.

On the Andrew Marr show:

Corbyn said: "The position of the party is that where you have self-identified as a woman, you are treated as a woman".
Then Andrew Marr said: "You are a woman?"
Corbyn: "Yes"

How is that unclear? We are not making this shit up you know.

DailyWTFMoments they can't kick out ALL the women. We need more people onside pushing before a decision is made. More men yes. But crucially more women MPs. imo.

I don’t know why everyone is pretending these decisions have all been made. You’re not helping within the party or outside it.

When the Leader of the Party states that "someone is a woman if they feel like one" on prime time Sunday politics TV, then it somewhat undermines any process that may exist.

Especially when triangulated with the fact that a member of the Party was suspended for publishing a view contrary to that of the Leader.

If it's not policy, why was she kicked out?

Labour has a policy making process. Self id has not been through that policy making process. So it is not Labour policy. And it’s far from clear it ever will be. The party is genuinely divided on the matter. My CLP are working on a motion to women’s conference about it (with broad agreement that we’re fine with trans women being on AWS, but not with self id). I don’t know why everyone is pretending these decisions have all been made. You’re not helping within the party or outside it.

This is such a good article about how we've got here, really recommend reading it!

sexandgenderintro.com/how-did-we-get-here/

It discriminates against old straight white males who identify as old straight white males.

Cassandra - that's the one where you're allowed to self identify not just as a woman, but also as BAME or disabled!

I think there is a point., Biscuit. Labour are still in consultation mode. JC has old feminista friends (I'm quoting from something I read/listened to recently). I believe older women Labour MPs will be sympathetic and open to common sense reasoning. This is why I'm sending letters to women Labour MPs like Emily Thornbury. If the likes of her get worried, then this whole thing will slow down a bit. Give the parties a chance to breathe and see the light.

Cassandra
Labour seem determined to piss everyone off don't they

Given JC's track record with Remain Labour MPs, I don't think there's any point Fly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5378489/Labour-bans-white-straight-men-equalities-conference.html

I'm fed up of GC feminists standing back, unhappy but willing to be silenced. Reminds me of a trans thread where a guy wanted to take over a woman's conference with trans ideology. And so many of the feminists turned up to say walk away and start another. Since when should we stand aside? The reason Labour is in this mess is because women's voice are not being heard. Why not?

I will vote. I always do. I won't vote Tory. I won't vote Labour. I won't vote UKIP. If there are no other options I will spoil my ballot. I won't NOT vote.

You abdicate power by not voting. You give up a voice in a party when you choose to leave it.

True as a general principle.

Specifically vis a vis the Labour Party and the UK parliamentary electoral system, however, voter apathy benefits the Tories and Labour's internal party structures benefit the noisy activist wings (eg Momentum) via democratic centralism.

Women were force fed to give me the vote ffs!!!!

I will still vote Labour. We have to get the Tories out. Never give in,never give up