Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

Together.

Together.

We can do anything.

Lostinedinburgh, thanks for telling me. I would've checked before I voted but you have really helped.
Spoil my ballot, it is.

"Ytho Perhaps I should bow out now. I'm saddened that anyone would consider sacrificing NHS, education etc over this issue. Even with self Id, if it was pushed through, I believe those things would still help women and girls."

No they wouldn't.

Girls and women would be forced to share hospital wards with men with autogynephilia who have massive stores of rage towards females because they suspect the truth: that we don't believe that they are women, however much we obediently chant the mantra "transwomen are women". Look at how India Willoughby expressed that rage in the CBB house, at the bottom of it is the knowledge that no-one really believes what they are pretending to and no amount of compliance can ever be enough. Such men would be on "same sex" wards with vulnerable, ill women.

We would be forced to endure being examined by "women" nurses with five o'clock shadow. When we asked for a chaperone when undergoing an intimate examination with a male doctor, another male in a dress would be presented to us as a suitable chaperone; when we are in our eighties and unable to walk or dress ourselves, a male with a boner might be washing us and changing our clothes and if we noticed and complained, we'd be accused of being outdated transphobic dinosaurs.

Our girls would be taught that if they don't like pink and dolls, they need to be rushed off to a clinic for mastectomies and our boys would be taught that they need to be castrated if they do like pink and dolls, because they are trapped in the wrong bodies. The children who would have grown up healthy gay adults, will be put on a road of lifelong medicalisation and gender confusion. If we express our horror at our children and grandchildren's mutilation, they will be taken into care because we are clearly emotionally abusing them by not supporting the idea that they must really be the opposite sex because they don't conform to sexist stereotypes.

All this would be taught in our schools. The biology GCSE will need to be adapted to fit this shit.

We will never be able to use a gym or swimming changing room again without the certainty that someone who may be perving on us, may be present. We will never be able to go to a restaurant or cafe or museum or school loo, without knowing that there may be a man in the next cubicle. Some of those men will be sitting there wanking because they get off on the sound of women peeing. Yes, there is nothing in life that a man in our sick society can't make a sexual fetish out of.

Don't tell me this is hysterical anti-man nonsense. It's already happening and self-ID can only escalate it.

Don't tell me this is a single issue. It's the biggest attack on women's rights in my lifetime and I've lived on Earth for half a century. This will affect every single aspect of how we live our lives. And yes, the weakest, the most vulnerable, the ones who don't have a cushion of money to protect them, will suffer most. All the time being told we live in glorious inclusive society. That's what a vote for Labour at the current time means. It's too dangerous.

And yes, I recognise that Tories are dangerous too. But it is absolutely mistaken to believe that Labour will rescue us. They won't they hold us in complete contempt. Lily Madigan is the living proof, of what Labour think of women.

lostmeagesago Thanks for reminding me of my days as a labor organizer.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I stopped supporting Labour on the day that Corbyn became leader, though it's fair to say that I was holding my nose for years prior to that.

So what took you all so long?

Anyone who is still a member of Labour post the Ken Livingstone debacle has no moral leg to stand on.

If you were happy to ignore it when they first came for the Jews, don't now be surprised when they come for women's rights.

Momentum is a cult and Corbyn is the Leader despite his pro-Putin, pro-Iranian, Pro-Hamas and pro-Hezbollah and pro-IRA past.

You were warned and you were warned and you were warned again.

It's hardly surprising that Labour can't beat the Tories in either an election or the polls despite the Tories being at each others' throats daily, the shitshow that is Brexit and corruption and scandal to rival Major's government.

While Corbyn is in charge, Labour is finished.

[[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-irans-revolution-betrayed-its-women/article4087027/ "For Ms. Moghissi, who fled Iran with her family in 1984, there were prerevolutionary signs of an impending harsh theocratic state that would trample civil rights. One sign came during the heady, chaotic months leading up to the shah's departure, when pro-Khomaini followers prevented women from participating in anti-shah protests.

"That was a kind of bell-ringing, what would be in store for women. I would say that some of us had become disenchanted with the revolution.""]]

I hear a bell ringing now, for what is in store for women here, in the UK, 2018.

It isn't religious - at least, people don't recognise this religious dogma for what it is. But it doesn't have to have a place of worship, incense and holy garb to be a religious movement. It only has to require slavish obedience and give penalties for non-believers. Already people have lost jobs, are being silenced, no platformed. People are being threatened with prosecution. There is talk of hate speech and hate crimes. Medical professionals are forming secret groups. Women are forming secret groups. Academics are being censored. People are being banned from media platforms, suspended from political parties. Science is being edited. Laws are changing.

If that isn't all a cacophony of ringing bells I don't know what is.

Ytho Perhaps I should bow out now. I'm saddened that anyone would consider sacrificing NHS, education etc over this issue. Even with self Id, if it was pushed through, I believe those things would still help women and girls.

Have a read of this, it's quite brief.

“Women were betrayed by the revolution they helped to make” – Gender, Class and Security Politics in Iran

Turn your anger towards the politicians who are forcing us to choose between our rights and the NHS. Reframe this battle as men so determined not to cede rights and protection to women that THEY are prepared to risk losing everything rather than concede that women should be afforded the rights we deserve.

If those with agency and power have it within their gift to do right by women, and they know this is is the single most compelling route to winning a landslide of women's votes, and yet STILL they hesitate and risk losing all - how much blame rests upon them?

Will they consider: we could have won it all but we didn't want to recognise women as deserving of their rights?

THEY are the ones sabotaging labour's rights. Not women. We are fighting for survival. And that is where we must focus.

The experience of the Iranian feminists is a sobering lesson for me.

It's not just self-ID itself, it's what it has revealed about Labour. The intolerance of debate, the desperation to silence women, the cult-like parroting of "trans women are women". I am disgusted by the way that Stella Creasy, Angela Rayner and co have piled on to label gender critical women as bigots, while fawning over Lily M. Nor do I believe that they really believe that TIM are women: they are lying to avoid controversy and are happy to throw women's rights away to further their own careers. They are despicable cowards.

I'm a single parent. I earn £15k a year. Extortionate private rent, which keeps being raised by landlord. House falling apart. But trapped here. Have no money to move.

Although I have to say, I do get good tax credit support, Child Benefit and Housing Benefit. Sporadic maintenance.

But I'll get through living a frugal and basic life rather than see this shite get any further.

goalIs

really pisses me off to see women here on mn saying they will vote for tories purely because of one issue (trans). Great for you if you belong to the lucky few who haven't been nearly destroyed by years of real term cuts

I am disabled, and have recently been told that I will be this way for life and any treatment is unlikely to be sucessful. I currently have my PIP suspended after a ridiculous 'medical' where the assessor lied through her teeth and ignored my evidence and the 'decision maker' at MR, motivated by targets, also ignored all evidence from the pain clinic, my consultants and my GP, along with mountains of evidence backing up the fact that I can barely do anyhting at all physically. I have been hit by endless tory cuts. However, I simply cannot vote for a party that seems to actively want to take womens rights back a hundred years. As thats what self-ID is. I would rather endure another 5 years of cuts and suspensions than have my daughter grow up in a world where she has no space away from male people, she has to get changed infront of male people, if she ended up in prison she could be sharing a cell with a rapist with a penis, if she is gay she will be shamed out of her sexuality else branded a bigot, and so on.

It may seem like a single issue, but it affects so many areas of peoples (female people, mainly) lives that its a damn important single issue.

It’s difficult to help women and girls if women and girls has ceased to mean what it used to mean.

Perhaps I should bow out now. I'm saddened that anyone would consider sacrificing NHS, education etc over this issue. Even with self Id, if it was pushed through, I believe those things would still help women and girls.

One of the many incidents that led me to leave the LP after lifelong support was overhearing a local Labour councillor referring to another Labour councillor as "that horrible little Jew boy". To great guffaws.

In the pockets of Momentum. It's a cesspit.

I will not vote for any party which tells me I must, even at the cost of the NHS, schools, the welfare state. Because if we women are forced to comply with this latest attack on our rights, all those things will be turned against us anyway.

This is an extremely important point to make.

"Spoiling ballots means nothing. No one knows why someone has spoiled their ballot paper. "
They do if you write your reason in big letters all over the paper.

I'm thinking of quoting this:

Just remembered. Gordon Brown - there was another labour politician calling women bigots. Must be something in the water at Westminster

OK you've convinced me to spoil my ballot.

Here's the thing.

I don't want transexual male women on all women's shortlists either.

They should have trans shortlists. Any political space taken by transexuals, must be taken from men, not from women.

Even if you have had surgery and hormones, you are not a woman if you were born with a penis and testicles and put through boyhood. I will be polite to you, I will fight for your right to not be discriminated against, I will even use the pronouns you want me to (if you are asking politely, not telling to die in a fire, TERF), but I do so as a kindness, not because I believe you are a woman. You are a transwoman and that's fine and in some circumstances, I will forget that you were ever a man and I will treat you as a woman and I will show solidarity with you as a woman. But you will never be one and I am sick and tired of left wing men's demands that I pretend I believe you are, even while they refuse to sleep with you because they only sleep with real women.

Sorry that turned into a rant. But it's how I feel now. 5 years ago, I would have automatically accepted that someone who has had an op, should be treated at all times as a woman and I would have suppressed my knowledge that they are not and it's just kindness, not truth, to pretend they are. But now - no, I will not submit to this latest form of male supremacist ideology and I will not vote for any party which tells me I must, even at the cost of the NHS, schools, the welfare state. Because if we women are forced to comply with this latest attack on our rights, all those things will be turned against us anyway. We have got to recognise how serious this threat is and show all those politicos how seriously we take it.

Who would start it? Someone who's left a party for these issues? I'm not sure who would be good.

I'd be involved in a new political party.

I wish all the women leaving would get together and set up a new party dedicated to common sense.
I would join it.

I feel I can't really relate to priorities of many here. Do I belong to a minority that thinks there are way too many things at stake to spoil my ballot or not vote. I hope not. I also don't agree with the view that there's no point to NHS, education, refuges etc if self Id is pushed through. Although they are already under threat for different reasons so perhaps it won't be an issue in the near future.

I just hope that by the time of the next election, there has been enough change within all the parties so that more women will choose to use their vote.