Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

Wouldn't trustvJohn McDonell as far as I could throw him.

nor would I believe anything from the Morning Star

Too fucking late, mate.

Someone's listening...at last!

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/women-are-vital-part-socialist-movement-%E2%80%93-they-must-be-consulted-over-changes-gender

Godg blah blah blah with no fucking paragraphs and they expect women to bloody read it

We sure are getting a lot of mansplainers lately who claim they were directed here.

Well, don’t you all just feel more informed now?

My suspicion has been confirmed.

“Banc do you consider yourself trans? If not and self-Id passes get used to cis. It will be your new gender definition, by default. It is a word used by trans people to describe those other than them.”

I think you are saying that I’m this CIS thing then? So that’s almost everyone... The truth is I’m just a typical middle aged man. Actually, I’m a very fortunate man. I have had no such identity issues in my life to deal with and I’m fortunate to actually be married to the best person I’ve ever met in my entire life (my wife). I think feminists call people like me ‘privileged’, I certainly feel fortunate but I don’t feel any guilt about it. I’m a natural UKIP voter as it happens and will probably join the party if batten is made leader. I utterly despise the modern Labour Party as I believe the leadership is now actually socialist (as opposed to social democratic which I would have no problem with). I liked Nigel Farage but I believed he was to right wing on economics which I felt could leave many ordinary decent people without so I could never have joined UKIP before. My concerns about the trans thing was purely about what self identification could mean for women, particularly vulnerable women such as those who have made mistakes and ended up in prison. Men and women suffer from many of the same problems but also from some different problems, one of the problems I believe women can suffer from is abuse from men who are without a doubt physically stronger and more aggressive. My mother suffered such abuse when I was a small child and I remember it well, most men are decent but there are enough who are not to cause concern. As man I don’t believe the trans stuff will cause me any harm at all. I think self ID is nonsense personally, but I also think it is the logical conclusion of the ideas I have heard that feminists believe. This is just my limited understanding of it though. I came here after reading about this thread and will not post after today as I don’t think there is really a place for the likes of myself in a feminist space, I was just genuinely intrigued. While I won’t post again after today I do appreciate the replies and promise to give each response proper consideration as everyone who took the time to engage with me deserves that. I wish you all the best stopping this self ID stuff but it comes purely from the left so those on the left will have to sort it out as a they will never listen to people like me.

I agree with you and I ought not to take the bait but...
Failure to object is viewed as acquiescence.
My apologies.

Yes Botanist a world where law changes made it impossible or very difficult to defend biological women's rights can't be an end point any party wants. Not if it wants to win biological women's votes.

I understand @thebewilderness

I think though this space has come somewhere people can come and start to see and understand the bits of the Self-ID stuff that has been hidden from public view.

This is such a big thing for women everywhere and I feel that helping people who would otherwise not be aware to see what is going on, and how it may affect all women, including those they care for, is critical to defend feminism if it is to mean anything at all.

I do tend to agree about words and crimes - the intent matters, I have nothing against transwomen, but I would like to protect women’s rights. If that makes us guilty of hate crimes at some point, that would indeed be a sorry pass.

I get a bit cranky when people come to the Feminist Chat to declare that they would never be a Feminist themselves then proceed to to tell the Feminists what the Feminists think and how wrong they are to think it.

Banc do you consider yourself trans? If not and self-Id passes get used to cis. It will be your new gender definition, by default. It is a word used by trans people to describe those other than them.

I think in the future the government will bring in laws to make expressing some of the views expressed in this thread (that people are not the gender they say they are) hate crimes. But again that is the natural conclusion to wanting to see another’s freedom of speech prohibited, the exact same tools and laws can be applied against you.

I think some might intend this to happen certainly. I do not believe that will or should happen.

Starting to think the people who say the rapid rise in TRA ideology is being fuelled by those who stand to benefit from a divided left might have a point
I know people want to believe this but it’s really not true. The left really are doing this all by themselves

littlebillie that is a very odd post.

Bamc thank you for coming here and sharing your opinions. As far as I am concerned you are very welcome here. The proposals (and they are only that) for self-id if implemented could have a huge impact on everyone in society. I think it is critical open debate that doesn't hide this happens.

I also think that more widely the way this is NOT being approached and discussed openly and in a balanced way by our elected representatives is deeply concerning for anyone in the UK who values living in a democracy.

“If anyone uses the term CIS this is hate crime, I have heard applied to men and women.”
I have never heard anyone use that word and don’t know what it means. But words shouldn’t ever be crimes.

If anyone uses the term CIS this is hate crime, I have heard applied to men and women.

If you see it report it, it is HATE.

I don't really know what to say to all your straw man arguments, Bamc.
I am 71 years old, and have been a Radical Feminist for fifty of them, and yet somehow I have never met any of the Feminists you describe.
I suspect you of telling porky pies.

OP - ideas evolve and society evolves, the important thing is that people take part in the debate and take part in democracy.

You won't find people on here defending racists from ANTIFA because that is not the focus of the board. No platforming of racists is obviously relevant to this debate. No platforming generally is a ridiculous idea imo and treats people like children.

“Feminists don't have a problem with men committing violent crimes? Since when?” - well, because men are more likely to end up in prison because of what they do, and they more like to be CEOs because of what they do. This is equality of opportunity, which I believe in. I watched a video where feminists seemed to be arguing for equality of outcome, except actually they weren’t. They were arguing for equality of outcome enforced by quotas not merit for the board room (equality at the top), but nothing to be done at the bottom. Enforced equality of outcome is, I suspect, another bad idea that people wouldn’t like if taken to its logical conclusion.

That’s simply violent and thug like/fascist behaviour in my opinion and such threats of physical violence should/would be reported to the police if they happened in the UK
What would be the point to reporting men threatening violence against women in the UK? Actual violence against women is rarely followed up so threats are shrugged off when reported. How is it possible that you do not know this?