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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

OP posts:
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TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 10/02/2018 17:27

bff 4eva

Well, I can certainly see why we should take you seriously.

Sarahjconnor · 10/02/2018 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 10/02/2018 17:27

Incidentally does anyone remember that disorder where a person truest believes they should be disabled in some way ? Some poor woman was medically blindedor something ?

Ive always wondered if there’s any relation between this and the “born in the wrong body” feelings.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 10/02/2018 17:26

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

^^
This is hilarious. You just need to compare the percentage of men in prison with the percentage of women in prison. It’s mostly men that are violent and dangerous. Females are the most vulnerable sex

Battleax · 10/02/2018 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Trailedanderror · 10/02/2018 17:26

@cjferg
"Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?"
(You mean sex, btw)
Do you want to have a little think about that?

Can you really not think of some reasons why women don't want men in changing rooms, in Domestic Violence Refuges, playing contact sports with us?

Biscuit
stitchglitched · 10/02/2018 17:26

Hi OP I'm more concerned about the transwomen who are happy with their bodies and say their penises are female than those with gender dysphoria who transition. FYI, you are aware that your position that trans people are in the 'wrong body' is terribly transphobic under the current vocal trans ideology?

StillTryingHard · 10/02/2018 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DarthVaper · 10/02/2018 17:25

Are you a man but any chance? You are come across a bit mansplainy.

McTufty · 10/02/2018 17:25

What @sophoclesthefox said

Charismam · 10/02/2018 17:24

[popcorn]

UnmitigatedBollocks · 10/02/2018 17:24

Oh bore off. Idiot.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 17:24

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender.

I think this describes me.

I think this probably describes every feminist on these boards. And every person tbh. Does anyone 'identify; with every stereotype they are 'supposed to'?

I have no gender identity. I am therefor by todays labels a-gender or non-binary. Wow, I am trans too!

windchimesabotage · 10/02/2018 17:23

Its also important to note that people who have been raised women will have had very experiences to people who have been raised men. Despite feeling you have always been a woman, if you have appeared to be a man you will have been treated a certain way. So if you were raised a women you will have faced issues due to that, that you need to be able to communicate in order to talk about oppression.
To equate the experiences of trans women exactly with the experiences of people born women is the same kind of thing as saying 'i dont see colour' or whatever... it prevents biological women discussing their own oppression.

Freshlylaidterf · 10/02/2018 17:23

He was actually a male in a female body
Actually, impossible.

SophoclesTheFox · 10/02/2018 17:23

You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

Ah, my favourite piece of appropriative, patronising nonsense. I had a hysterectomy at 41. If that means I'm not a woman then why can't I pee standing up, and more importantly, where's my pay rise?

Op, the important fact is that the world, the patriarchy, doesn't give a shit (much like every trans ally who ever came on here to scold us using this trope) about my diseased uterus having been cut out of me. The world, the patriarchy is set up on treating people who are perceived to be of the sex that have uteruses in a certain way that they don't treat people who are of the sex who don't. The gender critical objection is about being forced to pretend that doesn't matter. It very much does matter.

Seeingadistance · 10/02/2018 17:23

OP, probably best that you leave the mic lying there while you do some reading, listening and thinking.

FancyNewBeesly · 10/02/2018 17:23

I have no problem whatsoever with trans people - I am happy to refer to anyone as whatever gender they please, doesn’t bother me at all.

It does bother me that we are not allowed to even discuss the fact that transwomen / men are not biologically female / male without being called a bigot.

It does bother me that acknowledging the risks of men exploiting self ID to abuse women makes me a bigot - even trying to have a discussion about it.

It does bother me that lesbians are being called TERFs if they don’t want to interact with a “lady penis”.

Is that more clear?

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 10/02/2018 17:22

Also you might want to have a read up about the numerous cases where people have used self ID to their benefit and to the detriment of women.

Anlaf · 10/02/2018 17:21

Lang

It has an air of leaving women to pick up your shit for you, doesn't it

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender.

I think this describes me. I don't insist on they pronouns though, and arguably I do have a gender cos people treat me in a particular way because I am biologically female ("a woman") like your friend.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 10/02/2018 17:21

Couldn’t stand to read all of that.
Whatever qualities these people may have to recommend them (a certain naive credulity?) they do not have the gift of succinct, pithy argument.

PotatoesOfTheCarribean · 10/02/2018 17:20

Oh fgs, mic drop? 😂😂😂

Just parking myself here. 🍿

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 17:20

The point is OP that there are occasions where it is biological sex which matters, and gender is irrelevant e.g. Women's sport, intimate examinations of rape victims etc

Gender is always irrelevant. As its just a bunch of stereotypes. Its always sex that is important. Areas are segregated by sex. Womens rights are based on sex. And so on.

I know you know this already, but I found the wording of this unfortunate when dealing with a TRA as it will be twisted.

NotTerfNorCis · 10/02/2018 17:20

Hi cjferg interesting stuff. So is being trans actually alienation from your own body or is it powerful identification with the stereotyped roles, behaviours and experiences of the opposite sex? Could the second lead to the first?

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 10/02/2018 17:19

Someone with a penis is a biological male therefore in safe spaces for females should not be present.

This isn’t that hard. Men are quite often a danger to women. Yes that’s males are often a danger to females. That’s why we have sex segregation.

People who feel like they are are in the wrong body for I feel sad that they are struggling and feel unhappy. I support their right to dress and be referred to as they please if it makes them happy. But this does not make them female. A penis is a male sex organ and comes attached to a biological male.

Non binary is just bizzare to me. I do not “identify” as male or female. I don’t feel like either. I am me. I AM female. Its a simple as that. I cannot identity out of the problems that come with being female. I fail to see how identifying as such helps us break the ridiculous societal stereotypes of our sexes. If anything it re enforces it.