Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

So if men don't hate us then why is there so much rape, murder, assault, harrasment, dv, general inequality in all aspects of life, economically, politically?? What is the answer to that Missy?

Susan I said would you like a reference and poster never replied - you are being dishonest

On what and why?

Ie this
they are too hard to deal with due to their changes in hormones’???

Is that because women's hormones change and cause physical changes like rise in temperature at certain times in cycle- therefore throwing in an unnecessary variable into scientific research?

References please?
Lol at this from someone who offered wikipedia as their 'reference'.

And yes not nearly enough information there to draw any conclusion

Not ready-
References please?

But tbh restricting this idea of ‘hate’ to murder or rape is simplying the issue to the extreme
I agree with this but would also say the term hate is too broad to do any meaningful analysis.

Actually did you know that in general women aren’t accepted in medical trials because ‘they are too hard to deal with due to their changes in hormones’???

Which means that when we take medication, no one has any idea of the effect it will have on our hormones.....

Scant??
You think that the information is too scant to decide?

Missy do you accept that historically men hated women? Banning them from the public vote, banning them from receiving academic degrees, banning them from regulating their own reproductive cycle, banning them from owning property? Or was that just accidental? If you do accept that historically men hated women (by systematically oppressing them), what is it that has led to a sudden sea-change?

Maybe hate is the wrong word. Maybe it should be disrespect. Men in general do not see women as their equals.

Missy because most research including medical research is done by white men and ‘trialed’ on white men.

It’s not an issue with ideology, it’s a fact.

So much so that for example, there is little research on vulvidinia (and very painful condition only women experience) but massive reasearch in men sexual dysfunction/lack of erection (which whilst annoying isn’t painful).
Trials are also done in white men in majority, so much so that actually we have no idea if medication work the same way on women or on other races (clue, it doesn’t always work. Even vaccines have been shown to not work in other ethnicities other than the whilst population).

Same of you look at who is a researcher etc....

Or historians (which means women are almost eradicated from any text books for example, despite their non negigeable role... Just like blacks aren’t part if the history etc. It’s always written fr om a white male pov)

So yes I think it’s worth asking the question

Not ready- I cannot draw any logical conclusion because the information you are presenting me with is scant. Full facts are required to look at anything objectively.
If you use a term like men hate women it's so broad, no one could ever say yes or no.

Re the number of murder men vs men, i think it’s quite obvious that reasons why men kill men are different than the reasons why men kill women.

But tbh restricting this idea of ‘hate’ to murder or rape is simplying the issue to the extreme. It’s everything that is affected.
Think for example of the US government talking about abortion and contraception and deciding that abortions are a no go etc etc.
Not one woman around the table. Not one on a subject that it really totally and purely female.
Why??? Why are these men happy to put women under real hardship (eg no abortion even if you have been raped) wo a thought for women and wo even giving women a voice?
How would you define that sort of attitude in other words??

I often think that some on this forum have an ideology to uphold and will say everything is wrong even when the evidence suggests otherwise- scientific research is biased, must be by white men- (why white males specifically btw?, Do other males of other races not apply?

I like the idea of ‘relational aggression’
Who has coined the word and who has done the studies? Men? White men?
Is it possible for them to study those things wo biais? (First rule in any research btw).

Fwiw I have never encountered the behaviour Missy is talking about.
I have encountered cliques based on class that affect both men and women.

I think if men are violent towards men, and these make up most assaults murders, it's inaccurate to say men hate women on this basis. Men assert dominance over males and females, but more so other men- you cannot draw the conclusion that they hate women and are picking on them for being weaker- they are being violent indiscriminately or more actively towards other males.

Do you assert men hate men?

Most male violence is territorial- e.g. fights in the pub and gang violence. And it's hard to hate your own class of people. The thing with male violence against women is that men are deliberately asserting their physical power over a physically weaker group who are incapable of retaliating. As I said, it's most of the time a totally unconscious thing and it does not mean that men in your life don't love you etc. It's more about the broader societal structures that are set up to constantly suppress women, often by violent means.

Do men hate women is such a grotesquely over simpliefied term it is of no use at all.
as I said most murders and assaults are men on men, do men hate men? Men assert dominance over other men- do they hate men?

I do not think anyone is surprised that in a culture where male violence is glorified, males are violent, Missymoo.

I have really nice hair, it's really thick and I have always got a lot of attention because of it. One woman in particular seemed really obsessed with it, every day at the school run she'd make a somewhat bitchy comment....."oh here comes with the perfect hair'! That sort of thing. She was jealous and had obvious self esteem issues. I'll tell you this though, she wasn't plotting my demise, she didn't hate me or want apparent harm to come to me and she was one person. The same cannot be said about many men, because they are often planning the demise of some woman and of doing her harm in some way.....that's the difference. Statistics from all over the world tell us that, from rape in war, to female foetus abortion and infanticide, to FGM, to domestic abuse......why is it so hard to comprehend???

I understand ‘men hate women’ to mean they either actively subjugate women or are quietly happy to go along with the status quo because they are better off as a result.

Susan most murders are male victims by other males-
In the year ending March 2015, just under two-thirds of homicide victims were male (64%, 331 victims) and one-third were female (36%, 186 victims).
Do you assert men hate men?

They are aggressive to females sometimes because of sexual motivations. I don't think it's as simple as "hate"- which suggests to me a strong dislike

I think it's because you assume hate is a conscious feeling. Most of the time it isn't. Most men do not go around actively hating women. They will often love and cherish the women in their lives. But many of them will have a real issue if a woman tries to assert power over them. That will be much stronger than if a man asserted power over them. That's when the 'hate' comes into focus. Same with the many men who are in a loving relationship, yet will degrade other women who they are not in a relationship with e.g. by harassing them, visiting strip-clubs, watching violent porn etc.

I really do think female relational aggression is real and many women have experienced it, I'm sure I'm not alone in this!
How are you going to measure - do men hate women? Whatever standard you use you have to consider all factors. Violence is often cited but as I said most violent assaults by men are against men- so therefore do men hate men?

I suggest not- men hate women is a general sweeping statement that ignores things like female relational aggression, male-male violence, and sexual predation by men against women for sexual motivation. Men hate women such an over simplified statement, it's an almost useless and ignores all dynamics of human behaviour.
Think about it- what are you actually saying by "men hate women"