Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

There really good quotes

LastGirlOnTheLeft I think it is natural to find men somewhat dull unless they are savvy enough to understand that women are human beings. There is a famous quote : 'feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings'

“Nobody is saying that every Male on the planet is in a state of raging hatred towards women. “

They pretty much are

overnightangel

Yep you definitely are very young, probably have lots of trans and non binary friends too in your hipster cool girl group 😉

Oh, and I generally find men have an expectation that I will, must, nurture them, which I find draining. One of our dear friends doesn't do that, but he expects us to be his audience, which is also draining. At least he is a servant rather than master in his lovely family! I find most men dislike women (fear them) quite a lot. It is a tremendous relief and comfort at 60 not to have them around me much. I am at 60 with short grey hair free of the male gaze. I get addressed as sir in shops, followed by a hasty apology when they see beyond my hair. Hallelujah! The male gaze haunted me for years, and I was abused and harassed because I was female. Enough.

Posting as a 60yr old lesbian who finds 90% of men utterly boring, and the other 10% including men I really love, boring after a couple of hours or so. You might ask why I find men boring? 1. Because they live on a much more privileged planet than I do and are blissfully unaware of that fact. 2. They talk too much too loudly. 3. Mansplaining. 4. Mansplaining. 5. Etc. I inhabit a female world in which women take each other seriously and are in control of their lives. We have all been around the block a few times. When men come into my space that is an honour I don't bestow lightly and it isn't for long. My tolerance for them is low, even the ones I dearly love.

Thank you, that makes perfect sense. Am learning lots, thank you.

My take on that is that men get the most done (in both directions) because they have the most power and the most freedom.

This ^^. Imagine what you could get done if you had a wife at home looking after your family and cooking your meals!

Patriarchy pyramids

Isn't it well known that men are the more extreme sex - both the best and worst people on the planet whereas women are just more level and in the middle? Not that I am saying that is right

My take on that is that men get the most done (in both directions) because they have the most power and the most freedom.

And that's the case because of the way most societies are organised.

Bit out of my comfort zone posting on a feminism thread but really interesting debate.

I did watch the video ..so is it irrelevant that if we asked a representative population of the world (men and women) who were their most hated individual people then those listed would by far and away mostly be men (Trump, Hitler, the local murderer/person who them beat up etc)?

Isn't it well known that men are the more extreme sex - both the best and worst people on the planet whereas women are just more level and in the middle? Not that I am saying that is right.

Happy to be educated!

Shock horror, there are some nice men.

Yes there are. But you’d be surprised at what nice men get up to. In the last ten years I’ve seen an awful lot of the nice men I knew do some pretty awful things to wives. I’ve heard them debate whether they’d rape if they were never caught. I’ve heard some horror stories from divorcing wives.

Nobody is saying that every Male on the planet is in a state of raging hatred towards women. Whatcthey are saying is that the prevailing Male attitude in society towards women is dismissive, belittling, violent and oppressive. Everything in society is set up to benefit men. Work is - most sahps are women so that men can be inencumbered by child rearing. To get ahead in a career you have to be 24/7 available which requires a nanny - or a wife at home. Women are paid less. They are discriminated against. They are mocked.

As I said previously go and read the comments under any daily mail article that touches on feminism. The hatred is so intense.

You do sound young. And idealistic, which isn’t a bad thing. Come back in twenty years when your peer group has been through he first divorce wave, and see what you think then

So you know all men?? Shock horror, there are some nice men.

Jeez, way to miss the point.

Oops wrong thread

It's all quite hypocritical though isn't it?

Yes Oxfam are a fucking disgrace. But prostitutes are widely used here in UK and many of the prostituted are vulnerable women, trafficked, and/or children. Yet there is no outrage. In fact many women and men believe it is empowering for the prostituted/ trafficked.

Same with porn. So many in MN proudly state how they don't have a problem with porn / strip clubs etc.

In my mind these are all the same. Variations of men's right to buy and use women and children. So many of them supported by women in doing so.

You’re very insular and narrow minded and need to grow up and live in the real world

Says someone who's most likely in her 20s by the sound of it to a bunch of women old enough to be her mum.

@terftastic
“We really should drop NAMALT - I'm sick to death of it - and it allows men to just pass the buck by saying 'we're not like that'.”

So you know all men?? Shock horror, there are some nice men. You just don’t want to see it because it doesn’t fit your bullshit agenda, that you’ve probably had for years and you’ve convinced yourself you’re right.
Let’s tar all women with the same brush too shall we?

You’re very insular and narrow minded and need to grow up and live in the real world

I’ve seenxolenty of hatred of men by both men and women in lots of places I’ve worked.
Lots of women bitching about other women mostly. I suppose that’s the fault of men too.

I have seen the hatred of women, by men and other women, in two workplaces and spaces especially. The first was in academia; the second (bizarrely, to me) was in the liberal democrat party. I believe it's now in labour too - and getting noticed.

“Men in general do not see women as their equals.”

In my life/work/group of friends they do.

Strikes me as lots of people angry at themselves on this thread

For younger women, say mainly under 45, often the hatred is not visible because they are deemed to be sexually attractive and can get ahead on that basis

I don't know. There were quite a few times that I would get a glimpse of it, a resentment of the power that they think you have. You see it on the internet all the time, this assumption that young women have so much sexual power and privilege and a hateful resentment of it.

I think Dervel wrote a fantastic post on this a while back. It was pretty insightful.

I don't think the Emmeline Pankhurst used to NAMALT all over the place, did she?

We really should drop NAMALT - I'm sick to death of it - and it allows men to just pass the buck by saying 'we're not like that'.

up a great post

I was thinking why on any thread like this anywhere online it seems to take between two and ten posts before there’s namalt, women are just as bad/would be just as bad if given the chance, what about my significant males, where’s your incontrovertible proof etc. And I do think it’s because men are seen as people and women are not. So everything is seen through the lens of the person, the man. We do it without thinking, I know I do sometimes and it’s really hard for people to see what they’re doing and acknowledge but when you can see it, it’s infuriating.

Men still hold the vast majority of the power in the world. They could literally wave a magic wand and make it 50/50 tomorrow if they wanted to, but they don’t and they won’t.