Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

overnightangel, your ad hom remarks are making you look worse than your target, just in case you care.

Lettuce- your putting words in my mouth, I said women and men can make scathing remarks... often do. A scathing remark isn't violence.
Not ready to move- they frequently do though, dv has had some good improvement in conviction rates.

And I mean for that one off where a man shouts a line like this from behind the bus stop....

Ever heard of man going to prison for that?

I wish they wouod tbh. Because that’s exactly the sort of th8sg that keep women living in fear.
I’m grateful that now in my late 40s I have passed the age where I can look ‘attractive’ to move into the ‘totally ignored’ category.
At least I don’t have to live with that anymore.

Missymoo10

So when my ex called me a fat whore, those words weren't violent? Or when he called me crazy, broken, stupid......that's all fine. I should have sucked it up should I because they weren't violent enough for you? Wrong! Emotional abuse is against the law, a criminal act in fact.

As I said, threatening violence is covered by law, public order act, harassment etc...
But how often does it happen that men are actually convicted of breaking a law like this?
And how often women are going to press charges for that, esp for a one off?
They would be seen as over reacting etc... Do you really think that men in the Police would take such a complain Serioulsy or would it be brushed aside as not essential/urgent/serious??

Missymoo100

Yes men and women can be violent, however one does it a whole lot more......can you guess which one? Also one of them has the power, this can be easily be seen, goverment, head of companies, most affluent etc. Have you actually seen any of the vitriol thrown at women online...for simply being a woman, or an actress or a spokeswoman or a writer, seriously???

An invitation to dinner or sex is not supposed to include a threat of violence, but saying 'no' can trigger a violent response.

Missy I said at the start of this thread, I thought that hate was strong too. But that there was very little respect for women in general.

However, reading posts like the ones from Ray makes me wonder. Are some men so naive that they really can’t consider any reality different than theirs or is it actually hate, hate to be actually told how things are and to have to face the consequences of it, that they are not in fact nice people like they like to describe themselves??

I remember reading a study where they asked men if they had ever had sex in .
Most of those men would say they have never raped a woman. They are nice people etc etc.
But reading those answers, actually nearly 50% of them had sex wo consent with their partner (she was asleep, drunk, on drugs etc... or simply not keen). So a huge number of men actually had rape a woman. But they never ever saw that as rape. Because rape is for bad people and they aren’t one of those.
I think the same happens here. Men want to see themselves as good people, one that is kind to women in their life, one that helps with the HW, treat women as equal etc... but the reality is that, in a meeting they would be horrified to see women ‘monopolising the time’ by speaking 50% if the time. They will make assumptions that xxx is junior to them or an admin etc etc etc
And if you have ever tried to raise those issues with the men in your life, those really close to you, father, husband etc... those nice guys, you will see that they HATE being told that actually they aren’y nearly as nice as they want to portray themselves.
Just as they hate the rise of the #MeToo movement that is putting right in their face the fact women are routinely assaulted.
Because they just can’t carry in believing that it’s just others, just one of ‘those’ Women who met of ‘those’ men.

I still remember something my late mum said to me as I left the house on the morning of my very first day at work, in the late 1970's:

"Do your best but remember, men don't like women to be too clever, dear"

Kill the bitch-
Intended to carry out- offence of threats to kill,
More likely - words or behaviours that cause harassment alarm or distress as covered by the public order act

As I said, threatening violence is covered by law, public order act, harassment etc...
Mere scathing remarks as the comment I was referring to is NOT violence in its own right unless accompanied by a real threat of violence.
Hurting feelings is not violence

Kill the bitch is most appropriately covered by public order act

How Missy?

missy what about the things I mention, your opinion on them.

Dismiss us, insult our intelligence, patronise us. Treat us as a "pretty face" who is there to smilingly listen to theit boring talk.

So many men get angry when they meet women who won't smilingly listen to them prettily.

Lettuce said EVERY scathing remark-
Kill the bitch is most appropriately covered by public order act.
A scathing remark doesn't have to be accompanied by the threat of violence.
Saying "I could kill you" is sometimes a figure of speech not intended.
If someone makes a threat AND there is risk of it immediately being carried out - then in law it may be considered assault, otherwise no.
Speech and every negative comment is in not necessarily violence.

Most men don't see women as real people in the same way they see men as real people.

Lots of women don't either.

Men not seeing women as real people makes it easier for them to do the things they want to do. Pay us for sex they know we don't want, get us working for free looking after them, watch us having all sorts of stuff done to us in porn, insult and abuse us in real life. Treat us as stereotypes, disrespect us, leer at us, wank at us, all the stuff. The level at which our non-personhood varies around the world but it is always there to a greater or lesser extent.

What men really hate is when women demonstrate that we are autonomous beings with our own personhood and opinions and needs and aims that we may prioritise over the imperative to exist primarily to support and meet theirs

Well, I have to say, this is my experience of men. There first to prioritise their needs and wants. And then looking at you strangely when you don’t and reclaim your personhood.
Also interesting to see that those can also be the same men who are seen as ‘nice’ because they shoulder some of the HW and parenting.
And that even when there is some equality in the relationship, this most often goes to pot when the woman has a child.

As for do men hate women-
Some men will, the same as there are some men who are racist, homophobic etc. All people are capable of exhibiting prejudice regardless of sex.
I think hate is a strong word, some men will have inconcious biases for sure- but hate is a bit extreme.

No woman has ever yelled at me out of a car to show her my tits, or threatened me with rape on a bus.

?

I don't think it's true that both men and women do this sort of thing all the time. Men do it all the time. NAMALT obv. Are we busy pretending that they don't, at the moment? Why?

You are clearly not understanding the point being made though Missy

Kill the b*h within a game could be interpreted as an incitement towards an act of violence. It's a scathing remark and may well be in line of the way she looks and acts.

Elendon-
Those are already covered by law- public order act
If u read lettuces post she said;

It's not a minority of men......every scathing comment from a man about how a woman looks, acts is violence.

So therefore a critical comment is violence- no its not, not alone. There is a difference there. As I said women and men will both make negative comments.
The whole speech is violence is a way of curtailing freedom of speech and opinion.

Oh this from tallulah

"Men think of women as functioning in relation to men. We are there to support and facilitate them, to look after them, provide sex, enhance their idea of themselves, help them manage their emotions, above all give them our attention.

What men really hate is when women demonstrate that we are autonomous beings with our own personhood and opinions and needs and aims that we may prioritise over the imperative to exist primarily to support and meet theirs."

Loads of "nice" men, nonviolent generally normal kind men, do NOT like it if a woman disagrees with them, challenges them. I have noticed this both at work and in my personal life.

Read the beginning and the end.

Just the last few posts - a man yelling "get over here and suck my cock " to a schoolgirl, is that illegal?

What about sitting behind them on the bus saying "I'm going to rape you I'm going to follow you off the bus"

Certainly I think that might be illegal? These are both things that have happened to me.

@lettucepray you have one setting and it’s “Ranped up anger” socits pointless trying to discuss anything with you as your blinkers are glued into your head.

is not as