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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can we find a good historical analogy to the trans debate

135 replies

StillTryingHard · 09/02/2018 09:56

The problem as I see it is that here we have two opposing factions that each see each other as the victim.

We (me) see biological women as the victim - that we have been the victim of male privilege & supremacy politically financially and physically for millennia and still are in many (most) countries

Trans identifiers see themselves as a sexual minority who are being devised access to spaces.

All the analogies I come up with side with the people who want to gain access to denied spaces. Rosa Parks, suffragettes etc

Is there a sufficient historical analogy that can show even though we want self identifying trans folk to keep out of women's geographical political economic ring fenced spaces - that this does not make us the oppressors.

I fall into the terf camp btw. But I have these arguments in my head

OP posts:
HairyBallTheorem · 09/02/2018 10:23

I think colonialism is close. What it makes me think of are all those cowboy films from the 40s and 50s of the brave settlers opening up the west and creating a nation - a nation (America) in which the natives exist solely in the same way the landscape does - as a backdrop against which the white heroics can be played out. But that backdrop also functions as a "thing" which can be appropriated to differentiate the white settlers who see themselves as "American" from the European powers they are cutting themselves off from (and have fought a war of independence against) in building their new nation.

So in this analogy (an imperfect one) trans activists would be the brave settlers pushing ever westwards against the odds and creating a new nation (Americans), setting themselves apart from men and toxic masculinity (Europeans) and appropriating womanhood (the indigenous people, who aren't really seen as people at all but just part of the background scenery to be put on as a costume).

So they are colonialists, but they don't see themselves as colonialists because they've attached that label not to themselves (rampaging and pillaging across an already occupied territory) but to the "cis" people who they think oppressed them. And because no-one wants to pick a fight with the people with real power (the "cis" males) they project their beliefs about oppression onto the "cis" women.

FluffyHippo · 09/02/2018 10:17

BahHumbygge

Great minds etc!

FluffyHippo · 09/02/2018 10:16

The Glass Delusion is a useful analogy:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32625632

www.history.com/news/the-delusion-that-made-nobles-think-their-bodies-were-made-of-glass

Except, of course, no-one rushed to legislate for glass rights!

BahHumbygge · 09/02/2018 10:12

The glass delusion.

Destinysdaughter · 09/02/2018 10:07

That's a really good question OP and I'm sitting here wracking my brains to find a good analogy, but none of them really fit. It's difficult when you've got a movement that's based on 'feelings' which are totally subjective!

OvaHere · 09/02/2018 10:05

I don't think the civil rights movement does align with the trans movement, although they like to appropriate it a lot.

Black people - oppressed group
White people - oppressors

The equivalent analogy would be if some of those white people decided that they had an inner black self and that black people as a class were oppressing them with their cis-black privilege. They would be insisting that those black people priotise the trans black people above themselves because 'more oppressed'.

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 09/02/2018 10:02

If you look at it from "oppressed minority wants to take up what is offered to others", you're going to struggle - as generally the oppressed minority is the one in the right. However, that isn't what's happening here, self ID males are not an oppressed minority, they just view themselves as one. Like a persecution complex.

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 09/02/2018 09:59

Looking at it from a side of "you must believe the thing that we believe - despite no evidence - and you will be punished if not", there's plenty of historical religion examples of heresy.

doctorcuntybollocks · 09/02/2018 09:57

Colonialism.

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