The case against 'cis'

This is an excellent article that explains why cis is pointless, mainly because assuming gender is a spectrum means that the majority of people will be non-binary.

Cis had become a bit derogatory in some circles. Generally it just means that you aren't trans but some people use it as part of an insult. Think of gay people who used to refer to straight people as 'breeders'. Then of course if you feel that women's right are being undermined by the transactivists then you may feel like they are stealing the term women from women. I must admit that I find it a bit annoying myself. I'm not trans. I want trans people to lead nice safe lives from discrimination in peace and quiet. I have nothing against trans people. But I do not like people who try to make everything about them. My gender is not about them a quite frankly none of their business. It's a bit annoying for them to impose the trans/cis agenda on me and they have no right to demand that I divulge where I am a transwomen or a natal woman. It's no different to insisting that a transwomen only calls herself a transwomen instead of calling herself just a woman. It's unecessarily political. We don't feel the need to refer to woman as straight women or black women (out of the reasonable context) so why refer to them as ciswomen for no reason?

Many pps have eloquently covered why cis is bs, but the use of cis also allows TIMs who are male no matter how they identify to posit themselves as more oppressed and indeed are oppressed by females.

This creates a situation where a TIM like Caitlin Jenner is more oppressed than Malala for e.g or that rape/sexual assault/ abortion is cis privilege.

It's utter utter garbage.

Non-binary is an interesting one. Because I quite like the concept. You are telling the world that you are not identifying as a man or a woman, so please don't make assumptions and treat me in a certain way.

It does however reinforce the idea that there are two inner genders, you just don't subscribe to them.

If there a word that genuinely just meant 'not trans' I'd happily use it in reference to myself. I understand the desire of trans people not to feel othered by language.

Cis, however, is not that word. Cis means that you identify with the gender that matches your biological sex. Or that you identify with your gender 'assigned at birth.' As a feminist, I see gender as an oppressive, hierarchical system used to make essentialising statements about both men and women, but to the detriment of women. It's a Cartesian system whereby men have the majority of the positive qualities, and women the negative.

I don't believe in gendered souls, essences, or brains. I don't identify with any gender, so calling me 'cis' seriously offends me. It's like saying that I willingly identify with my own oppression and that of other women.

Seer I also like Datun's point about woman simply being a biological description like mare or ewe, and so not needing anything else.

So many official docs now use gender when they mean sex (which I think may have partly come our prudishness to use the word sex!) that a lot of people confuse the two without really examining either.

Non-binary is a reasonable description of most people's adoption of gender roles.

My preferred position would be to get rid of gender altogether but failing that a non-binary future doesn't sound that bad.

My concern is that because we habitually conflate gender with sex, some people are now arguing that because gender can be non-binary that means sex is non-binary too. This is cobblers.

If something fits, it doesn't feel like anything. It's only uncomfortable things that you can feel strongly enough to notice.

Cis doesn’t fit for a lot of women.

It's useful to have a word that mean not-trans.

Woman does a good job of describing women as opposed to transwomen.

It’s a label that’s been given that has no need. If it’s used to mean biological woman it’s just tautology. Woman means biological woman. And, as not all women subscribe to or “fit” gender stereotypes, labelling them up as ‘woman who is the gender expected of them’ doesn’t make any sense.

As others have said:

'Cis' assumes everyone has a gender. Many people believe gender is a social construct. I do not have a sense of gender. It is highly subjective.

Conversely, I know that I am a woman (this is my biological sex, not to be confused with woo woo gender) because I have things like a womb and periods (and am currently breastfeeding my poorly toddler...)

I do not mind if other people have a strong sense of gender. To me, and to most gender critical people, it feels anachronistic and limiting - girly being nurturing, lipstick and unicorns - boyish being tree climbing, action men and mud - but each to his/her own. However - gender and sex are not the same thing

Also I take huge offence at the use that midwives and doctors 'choose' or 'assign' a gender to a baby! This is absolutely crackers! They see a vulva, they know baby is a girl. They see a penis, baby is a boy. And congratulations either way!

This idea of 'assigning a gender' is straight out of some paranoid dystopian science fiction.

I don't believe that trans people have an inner sense of gender. I just don't think it is a thing. I understand that they think they do but from my perspective what they have is either body dysphoria, a deep held fetish or a personality that enjoys things that are stereotyped as 'belonging' to the opposite sex.

The latter group describes pretty much everyone to one degree or another which is why so much of trans ideology seems ridiculous and the opposite of progressive.

Then of course there are a few that are motivated solely I expect by pissing off women in a subversive way.

Great posts, everyone.

It's useful to have a word that mean not-trans.

That would be woman.

If a transperson want's to differentiate themself, that's up to them.

I don't except that they can further differentiate me. I have no need of it.

Furthermore, according to Stonewall, I am transgender. My internal sense of gender does not align with my sex.

My sex wasn’t assigned at birth it was observed. I really really object to “assigned” as it implies an element of choice by the midwife/doctor...when you see a vulva and no penis you observe girl.

In the few cases of intersex you are still observing not assigning. Yes the observation is not in this case leading to the correct genetic conclusions but this is rare. But even with intersex any assigning of sex at birth would be based on a choice between external appearance and measurable genetics...

I'm physically female and entirely comfortable with that. I never signed up to stereotypical female gender roles but it never crossed my mind I might be male. So am I cis? If it purely means discomfort with gender roles, I wouldn't be!

Seer

Whether you feel up for a, 'down the rabbit hole', discussion.

If you refuse to believe in gender, they will have a label for that!

You could try asking why they feel the need to label everything. Why it's important for everyone to have a box.

Because when you want to break out of that box, you have to redfine your label.

Woman is just biological description. Like mare or ewe.

I believe gender is a set of socially constructed stereotypes, which is the generally accepted definition, it's just not always deconstructed during an argument.

There is a very lazy acceptance of the word gender, at the moment, without actually dismantling it to see what it means.

gender expression is someting different

"Gender expression – how a person chooses to outwardly express their gender, within the context of societal expectations of gender. A person who does not confirm to societal expectations of gender may not, however, identify as trans."

This was done as the original definition was outrageously sexist.

No-one can argue with "inner feelings" as there's no way of validating them. Of course we do know that the inner feelings of men are fact and must be believed. While inner feelings of women may well be wrong and can be disregarded. Women being a bit flakey and whathaveyou. If a man says he "feels like a woman" then obviously that feeling is a fact as men are inherently reliable and excellent witnesses to their own lives. Women, not so much.

Same old same old.

Cis means 'gender identity aligned with biological sex'

If you use it, you are automatically accepting the following premises:

-there is such a thing as gender identity. This is inconsistent with the feminist position that gender is a set of stereotyped roles and expectations used to facilitate the oppression of women by men

• that the person you are talking identifies with one of these stereotyped roles. Hardly anyone does this (except gi joe and barbie)

• that people have 'souls': I.e., that there is some kind of essential 'you' that is dissociable from your body. This is a religious position

There's nothing wrong with accepting all the above premises, but there's also nothing wrong with rejecting them. We have religious and political freedom in this country to believe or not believe in social constructs and immaterial souls as we choose. That freedom is important to maintain.

Stonewall definition:

"Gender identity - a person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or something else (see non-binary below), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth."

= soul / ladybrain

I don't understand why women need a new label to identify them as not trans. Transwomen have their own label that separate them from women - it's transgender woman.

I get that they don't want to be othered but by giving women another label that differentiates us, surely they are still othered?

It feels a bit like they are claiming woman for themselves and shoving us to the side with a label they have made derogatory.

And also I'm cisgendered. My experiences of my own gender and gender identity are not what society deems feminine. I don't want to be labelled as a maternal, pretty, quiet etc. I am women, I am not overly feminine and I am happy with the label I have.

Hardwick my understanding is we're not even assigned sex at birth, let alone gender. We are born with a sex, and that sex is noted upon our arrival.