Feminism chat for right wingers

I believe in listening to both sides of the argument and also believe that it does nobody any flavours to become surrounded by an echo chamber of political views. I value free speech above all things. I value human rights for men, women and trans people. I believe children should be left out of all of this and trans kids are victims of child abuse (I think trans people are being used to further an agenda which takes away women's rights and sterilises gay and autistic people). Women make up just over half the population. We need to stick together on this. Self ID erases what it means to be female. Being female is not an idea or theory. It's a biological reality, women have been literally screwed for centuraries because of our biology. If these changes to the GRA go through, it won't matter how any of us think politically. It won't matter how we feel about the NHS, Grammar schools or the benefit system. Truth is we won't be listened to.

Wrt policies which damage women, I think the tax credit scheme was damaging to women as it created a welfare trap.
It was well intentioned, but ill thought out.

I am a feminist, who happens to be right of centre - the two are not incompatible.
I'm a believer in the 'teach a (wo)man to fish' ethos as mentioned upthread.

I struggle to reconcile the term feminist with right wing politics. I’m not saying you can’t be Right wing and support women’s rights/ equality but when right wing (and centre right) policies have much more of a detrimental effect on women (particularly in relation to social security and tax credits) then I’m not sure how someone who supports these damaging policies can say they support women’s rights.

Because in many instances women are the ones left holding the baby. Literally.

Even today, on FB, a friend was complaining about being a single mother without a steady job. Even though she is highly educated.

Why is free market capitalism patriarchal?
I ask as a woman who has thrived both developmentally and financially under these arrangements. I can see that without the ability to control my fertility that would be difficult. But we have that now. Why are women less fitted than men to thrive in the free market?

CritEqual

All those examples are capitalist, capitalist with Governments controlling markets instead (or as well as) corporations but capitalism all the same.

The market is still king (see what I did there?). As purits said "It's all about The Economy, stupid". I can think of nothing more patriarchal than the ideology of free market capitalism.

I agree about the scaling up so don't scale up.... but I'll stop because I am not talking about party politics which is clearly what this thread is about.

Let me wind it back.

How can one call themselves a feminist and vote for a party whose economic policies hit women so disproportionately?

I am a conservative voter (would never vote labour), gender critical and a feminist. I admired Margaret Thatcher as a child growing up, she seemed so strong and sure of herself. I think TM is doing a good job in the face of some serious shit being flung her way.

The self ID bollocks is seriously damaging to all women, protecting our sex is more important than politics.

Every single time socialism hits a critical mass it always fails spectacularly

So does all out capitalism.

There's virtue somewhere in the middle.

How can women thrive in a society that is run for the benefits of markets and profit? I am honestly asking.

How can women / men / the country thrive if not for the benefits of market and profit? It's all about The Economy, stupid.(to coin a phrase)

I'm vaguely on the right and used to think that I was a feminist. I've gone off the term, I'd prefer to call myself an Equalist (to cover, sex, race and any other potential division going)

How can it not be? How can women thrive in a society that is run for the benefits of markets and profit? I am honestly asking.

@Miffer I can't think of a society that's any better. Every single time socialism hits a critical mass it always fails spectacularly. I dearly wish it wasn't true as socialism and communism can work in small communes and smaller groups, it just scales incredibly badly. You know who ends up worse off when these socialist systems crash and burn? That's right women, taking a look at Venezuala we're seeing women crossing the border into Colombia to prostitute themselves in order to provide food for their family.

It's the same story time and time again, increasted state power, unsustainable spending, totalitarian locking down the whole thing comes crashing down. In fact women are often used precisely to shore up state power, promised the earth but the earth is very rarely delivered.

You hear this statistic that 1% of the world's wealthy own 50% of the worlds wealth? And this is true, and will increase, but what is failed to be mentioned is that as this happens the amount of relative wealth goes up too. So say for example as that's been happening the number of people subsisting off a dollar a day was around 50% 30-40 years ago, now it's like 22-23% and continues to fall. Women will overall do better the more this trend continues.

In terms of women's rights the two most significant factors are access to education and reproductive rights. The more these two things go up the better the country is as a whole across the board. For everyone, including men.

Someone else posted about this group on another thread, but Women2Win are interesting (they are the group co-founded by TM to increase numbers of female Tory MPs)

I don't think political leanings affect how feminist you are - it seems bizarre to me that someone would suggest being right wing/Tory voter is incompatible with feminism.

^ This. No matter what our politics we can all care about feminism. At the end of the day things that effect a Labour woman are likely to effect a Tory woman. I think stereotypes that Tory woman are all home counties middle class, no money worry type woman has been what has made others think we can't be feminists. We need to show that Tories are as diverse a group as the UK is.

However, that does not mean that all women are unable to strive & thrive

All women are oppressed because of their sex. A woman can thrive but it will find it harder than a man with all other things being equal.

I don't think anybody on the left things "all women" cannot thrive, as has been pointed out we have both a female PM and head of state.

(Last post was a reply to Miffer)

I get the whole thing about women being disproportionately affected by govt social & welfare decisions, and I get that we are at a disadvantage due to our sex.

However, that does not mean that all women are unable to strive & thrive - I have a problem with the 'all women are...' narrative of the left sometimes.

(Don't know if that makes sense, sorry - it does in my head!)

I'm another closet TM fan - she's not perfect by a long shot, but she was the only one willing to step into the breach and sweep up this sorry mess. Typical woman, eh?
This. My husband was going on about what a crap leader she was the other day. I don't think she's doing a great job but I don't think anyone could lead that shower of egomaniacs. And she has stuck it out, which is more than Cameron did.
In some ways though I wish she would step down so we might be able to get out of this nightmare.
I hope history is kind to her. (Feel the same way about Clegg too - it seems putting country above party is bad for your political career).

Therin lies the problem the left has colonized a great deal of what it is to even be a feminist by this stage

How can it not be? How can women thrive in a society that is run for the benefits of markets and profit? I am honestly asking.

no-one but no-one has come forward with a serious leadership challenge. This is not a coincidence

Indeed it isn't. Do you think she wouldn't have resigned on the 9th of June if she could have? I can't imagine which was worse for her, the realisation she would have to resign or the realisation she couldn't.

and the influence that had on girls growing up in the 1980s and 1990s (like me)

Me too, I greatly enjoyed her influence in my Northern mining town. It did wonders for my prospects.

Just because people don't perform feminism in the way you prescribe it

Yeah I hear that a lot lately.

Therin lies the problem the left has colonized a great deal of what it is to even be a feminist by this stage. To the point where it actuall hampered and impairs women's agency in the main.

I'm a feminist, I'm also a MT fan and a TM fan.
I'm also not ignorant.

Just because people don't perform feminism in the way you prescribe it, does not mean they're not feminists.

Miffer - I'm a feminist but not a Thatcher fan. I just don't think that anyone can ignore that she was the first female PM, and the influence that had on girls growing up in the 1980s and 1990s (like me)

I watched the same election contest as you I note that despite all the ongoing rumblings about TM and her leadership style, no-one but no-one has come forward with a serious leadership challenge. This is not a coincidence

Good find traviata. Someone needs to ask W2W about their stance on TIMs!

They have a very useful list of female Tory MPs on their website here. Lots have relevant responsibilities or previous roles - eg Heidi Allen is on the Work & Pensions Select Committee (will the state pension be paid at the age at which a TIM reaches their "female" age or their "male" age? How will the impact of benefits changes on different groups be measured if we cant' define the two biggest groups?) Victoria Atkins s the PUS for Crime, Safeguarding and Vulnerability (How will we measure female crime if we can't define female? How can it be right to promote guidance in schools that flies in the face of accepted best practice on safeguarding re adults telling other adults about a vulnerable child? How do we protect vulnerable children and adults from malign internet influences?)

"she was the only one willing to step into the breach and sweep up this sorry mess"

What Tory election contest did you watch? Either way if her sex had anything to do with it I am more inclined to go for the Glass Cliff theory.

We should also respect Mrs may for her work on modern slavery. She drove that legislation and that work. I hope it will be her legacy rather than the shitshow that is Brexit. Some hope.

Honestly don't understand how anybody can be both a feminist and a Margaret Thatcher fan. Ignorance maybe?