Feminism chat for right wingers

It's interesting that, here in Portugal, the two most extreme parties, left and right are both led by women, and are doing well.

(BTW, I don't mean extreme right as in far-right, but only as the most right wing party that we have atm. They're probably as right wing as the Tory party in the UK and to the left of the Republican party in the US).

In the left wing party, they actually told the party that they should put their votes where their mouth was. The previous leadership was male, so they selected a female leadership next. Perhaps that's what Labour needs. :)

However the left does seem to focus very hard on getting mothers back into work fast whether they actively want that or not. Which I do not agree with.

Sure, but it's mostly right wingers who complain about single mothers on benefits. While also conveniently forgetting the non-paying fathers.

Interesting view of women as public property. Yes, probably.

Littlemissbrainy - by your definition the leader of the women's organisation of the Nazi Party or Queen Elizabeth 1, or 2, or Eva Peron would be feminists - but they are just not. Unless feminism means being a woman and maybe doing something. Errr?

I am a centrist - slightly right on economic matters and slightly left on social matters.

I was a second wave feminist - 60s and 70s was my fighting time. But you definitely don't have to be left wing to be a feminist.

I have never found a political party with which I can 100% agree, so for me it has always been go for the least of evils. I recognise there are some things that need to be done by the state, yet I am wary of giving the state too much power. I recognise there are some things better done by private enterprise yet I believe it cannot be given unfettered freedom.

There is no natural party for me.

The old Liberal party (pre-dating the Lib Dems) was probably the nearest I could get to a fit.

Lweji well quite. I would not vote Tory for that reason amongst others. Because yes, they are praising SAHM but they are praising the ones who have partners who are wealthy or have their own wealth. They arent too concerned about women who have ended up in that situation for financial reasons and then are unable to leave it for financial reasons.
However the left does seem to focus very hard on getting mothers back into work fast whether they actively want that or not. Which I do not agree with.

Couple of old but still relevant sayings.

Left wing men think women are public property, right wing men think women are private property.

Left wing and right wing men merely disagree over where to place the boot on women's necks.

It would be great if misogyny was confined to one part of the political spectrum, would be easier to work around that way.

The problem is, what protection does the right give to SAHMs and to single mothers?
It's ok to say it's fine to be a SAHM, but many women end up being stuck in unhappy marriages because they are financial dependent on their husbands and don't think they'll be able to survive on tax credits or benefits. It's the right who wants to cut those benefits.

But it's silly to say that education is wasted on SAHM. Only if it's wasted on pre-school educators or nursery workers.

'I'm not on the right, but when I was a SAHP I drew comfort from some conservative politicians because they didn't dismiss or belittle that contribution to society in the way that the left did. I know that their motivation for this probably didn't match mine but it was appreciated. I was crushed when a Labour woman in government said that SAHMs wasted the money spent on our education and should get out to work.'

coffeecork that is an interesting post. Im quite far left and a member of momentum but what you say does sadden me too. Im a SAHM and yes it does seem that role is valued much more by the right. I cant really understand why the left dont value it more? Its a job that does need to be done after all and surely the left knows that money isnt the only important thing in peoples lives?
So actually even though I would never vote Tory in a million years I am grateful for feminists on the right who talk about SAHMs and family life more assertively than I find people on the left doing.

As the rise of the TRAs shows, even if a woman in politics thinks she's prepared for what will be thrown at her there's always the possibility of some new form of "women, get back in your boxes" landmines being planted where she wasn't expecting them.

I admire all women who put their heads above the parapet in politics

Hear, hear!

Fabulous thread. I can't see how anyone can not describe Margaret Thatcher or Theresa May as feminists. Surely doing the job they do/did, fighting against centuries of male oppression and being successful at it, makes them feminists? Same with Diane Abbot and Harriet Harman who despite the fact I disagree with almost everything they say, I still admire them as feminists just for doing what they do.
I tend to describe myself as a Right Wing Leftie btw & I admire all women who put their heads above the parapet in politics.

I'm very left but I don't think left wing politics are necessary to feminism (I used to though). I'll take good old fashioned tory sexism over liberal sell her vagina, womb and she's not even a woman anyway sexism.

I'm firmly on the left but believe that women all across the political spectrum need to work together on the trans issue, not only because it's the only way to win but because attempts to change the meaning of "woman" have an impact on all of us. This isn't a partisan issue. Our political representatives are letting us down on all sides, in large part because misogyny is not a left/right issue and there are people who're either indifferent to women's concerns or who've been looking for an opportunity to undermine our progress at every point on the political spectrum.

They can't silence us all, and the more strategically we work together the harder it is to shut us down. If I can help conservative women challenge this stuff within their own party, I will. I hope they'll do the same for women on the left. TRAs are overrepresented in tech, and that's given them a massive strategic advantage and helped them push things to the point they are now, but the flip side is that the raging narcissism that's common among TRAs means that if we're smart we should be able to play them off against each other. Women, otoh, are good at working together. We've done it before and we can do it again. There's already starting to be a shift in the way the media cover this issue, and the more we can frame this as a non-partisan issue on which women of all stripes have concerns the more likely we are to see results.

To be clear, I don't think either Thatcher or May have done anything for women. Except being PM.

I'd still vote Labour, but it's interesting that the party that does the least for women is the one who's had two female PM.
Contradictions on both parties.
And considering that Labour is essentially limping behind Corbyn, perhaps they should show some courage and finally elect a woman.

Anyway... is it possible to be conservative and feminist? Is free market compatible with feminism? Less regulations? Less state? Less social protection?

Interesting thread. I'm the dreaded 'centrist' that Momentum derides so viciously. I'm also politically homeless now, like many other GC feminists. I don't think you have to be left wing to be a feminist though and I definitely think we need to be cross party in defeating what is the greatest threat to women's rights in a century.

I think the Hands Across the Aisle movement was a good example of cross party activism. For anyone who has not heard of it, the following is a great watch.

handsacrosstheaislewomen.com/2017/02/17/biology-isnt-bigotry-why-sex-matters-in-the-age-of-gender-identity/

But actually, I think the Left and Right divide is not so clear cut any more. The Left are acting in an extremely authoritarian manner, with regressive policies imposed on supporters with no room for debate. I won't be part of that. I think there will be a new movement arising from the madness. Or at least I hope.

I'm not sure I have a party political perspective on this issue. I don't think the issues appeal to one party ideology more than another. I think the inheritance exclusion is the part that most obviously seems to come from the capitalist establishment and that that establishment is likely to grasp straightway what a mockery that exclusion makes of the whole thing. I suspect that that many right wingers fall into one of the following categories:

• trans what? Never heard of this. Sounds like a load of rubbish. File with other PC gone mad stuff like equal rights (eye roll)

• hahahahaha. This isn't serious and will never go anywhere so we can ignore it

• doesn't affect me

• sounds bad but I don't care enough to stick my head over the parapet

• bloody hell women are always banging on about something

I must say I don't know anyone else who is thinking or talking about this issues. I don't think it registers with the majority- which suits TRAs of course.

I probably haven't got much to contribute but very interesting thread

I would consider myself to be a centerist and was primarily a tory voter until the last two elections

I think that was probably down to laziness and upbringing more than any serious convictions...although the earlier labour leaders pre blair didnt really have an effect on me (that sounds really wrong but i cant think of a way of saying it)

I have always preferred conviction politicians (in my view) so john smith, gorden brown, nick clegg etc

I do feel politically homeless and i also think that no political parties seem to be supporting women at this time

Thatcher as feminist! This thread reminds me of all those debates about the incompatibility of bourgeois feminism with Marxist feminism. Class versus sex, Lady Di as oppressed woman etc. Perfectly possible to be a BF, though Thatcher herself had not a shred of interest in it, but why would one really want to be, when we know what the market does to most women.

Interesting thread. Over the years I've voted across the spectrum (aside from UKIP obviously) and probably naturally sit in the centre ground.

I was only wondering last night if there is a party that we could all join and influence? Perhaps one that hasn't fully formed its thinking on this subject?

I'm interested in this thread, too. I'd describe myself as economically centre-right, and socially libertarian. (I wouldn't vote Tory because they're further right than me and very authoritarian). I'm gender-critical because from a libertarian perspective I believe in people doing whatever they like as long as it doesn't harm others. Self-ID harms women. It's also profoundly anti-science and ontologically nonsensical.

Most gender-critical women I've come across have been left-wing, but I think you can be of any political persuasion and both be a feminist and disagree with the transactivists. Many of the women I admire are lefties - I don't have to agree with everything they say to value their contributions on particular issues. I think the 'ideological purity' stance is ultimately unhelpful when it stops people working together for a shared cause.

Agree very much we need to work together. I’m embarrassed at attitudes I’ve had in the past towards conservative voters. We can disagree but we mustn’t dismiss one another, which often happens on both sides I think. Certainly my grandmother, who was president of the Ladies Conservative Guild has some weird ideas about lefties. I grew up in the 80s when it was all about Thatcher so very polarised. She definitely wasn’t a feminist but I think there are contemporary Tory women that I would identify as being fairly feminist. Both sides have different blind spots. I’ve voted green in the past and that would be a good fit for me if it wasn’t for their stupidity over gender.

I am another leftie so won't have much to contribute but I also think it's great you started this thread, OP. I'd be interested to see how right-of-centre women think feminism can be applied through this prism.

I think Theresa May is a great example of the glass cliff in action so I'm not sure we should celebrate her role as PM from a feminist perspective. I'm ok with Maggie from a feminist perspective. I would love a female labour leader.

I’m centre right, a Conservative party member. I agree with everything you’ve said.
We shouldn’t be any more ashamed of our political leaning than we are of being feminists and it’s a shame that people (even on this thread) think we should.

I was in Bristol last night, yes it was overwhelmingly left wing but if we divide, we will lose. Feminism transcends blue and red, it’s far more important and do you know what? From what I’ve learnt as a member of a radical feminist group, male labour MPs are horrible misogynists. My male conservative MP couldn’t have been more understanding of our cause. His wife is a feminist within her profession. We need to work together.

I completely agree with all you’ve said. Economically I’m very right wing. Socially I’m a feminist (TERF) and can see the Labour Party making the biggest disasterous ani feminist move of their existence. I hope the Tory party step up and “fill the gap” for feminist voters by making a clear stance for women’s rights.