Guardian has debate on all-women shortlists

Not sure how a group of people who already agree on an issue sitting around talking about that issue qualifies as a debate.

I wonder how the first article writer feels about having promulgated discussion into getting rid of AWS. Seems like it's actually the last thing she'd want. Perhaps she should be defending it instead of turning it into a circus.

They've closed it!! I just finished drafting my response and they close it.

Small steps everyone.
I think this is a VERY important (small) step. This is the first time in a long time that the Guardian have allowed any gender critical comments to stand rather than deleting them. OK, they pre censored all the comments and of course we have no idea how many gender critical views they obliterated.
BUT I did see gender critical comments about biology, safe spaces, the use of cis and there were only a small number of TERF comments and very little shouting down. Unheard of from the paper that has been the flagship for 'a transgender woman is a real woman , now piss off and die you Terfy bigot'.
The question is, have they just been reluctantly shamed into having to have a balanced approach or is this just a gesture which they will throw in the direction of women as they continue to censor us?

Never would I have thought I could despise the Guardian and the Labour Party.

It's like a living nightmare.

I wish they would stop bringing up genitals as though it is a flaccid penis that we are worried out - it is in the unknown motive of the man attached to the penis who wants to be in a womens area that is our concern

Beyond fucking ironic that laws/procedures in place to give women a chance at having a voice to readdress the imbalance caused by men/patriarchy is being deemed unnecessary and unfairly exclusionary for not including men (with lady brain)...

Two of them called us cis women which clearly demonstrates where their allegiances lie. I wonder how they would feel about getting undressed in front of a strange lipstick wearing man in a ladies changing room

non trans women
non men
non prostate havers

This is why it's so easy to say oh woman doesn't mean anything really, so can mean anything really.

I'm waiting for a Daily Mail sad face article with a teen 'lesbian' couple who became parents because nobody told them a female penis could still impregnate someone.

I used up buy the guardian, refuse to since they started taking such an unbalanced view. I wonder if they even realise they’re losing subscribers.

Totally agree hackmum

A non-trans woman? Sheesh.

The approved labour concept of ‘woman’ now seems to be completely values based. Proper women and feminists are compassionate and supportive and toe the party line. ‘Problematic’ women like Germaine Greer aren’t proper women. It’s not clear what sex very very very problematic conservative women might be. Does Katie Hopkins exist at all in this context?

Meanwhile biology is apparently more complicated than we thought. Do we still advise girls that intercourse without contraception is likely to result in them becoming pregnant or just adopt a wait and see approach? Tell all children that they might have periods?

The only thing that seems clear is that whoever gets onto the shortlist, the Labour Party still seems to be headed by an old white man.

And just like that, we became non-trans women.

I posted some basic biology (aka literal violence and bigotry) and haven’t been deleted. I even got some recommends.

Small victories.

The Guardian makes me sick. I have to seriously question what their agenda is when they are supporting the "plight" of a prolific, violent sex offender who broke into teenaged girls bedrooms to wank in their underwear. I mean, what are they trying to achieve here? Are they fully on board with the promotion of men's sexual rights and the removal of consent?

I really think the eventual outcome of this is that AWS will get dropped.

Yes I noticed this.

The people making the comments are tying themselves in knots trying not to be transphobic.

What do you share with women that other men don’t?

Yes, exactly. What is it?

Yeah, there are definitely a lot of misogynist dudebros pontificating on the comments. And a smattering of women supporting them.

But it's significant that the Guardian is allowing gender critical comments at all. Given their utterly shameful history of censorship and misrepresentation on this topic. I'm hopeful that public opinion is beginning to turn and that the editors couldn't ignore this any longer.

There's even one comment alluding to the fact that alternative opinions have not been permitted so far. No doubt some poor rogue Guardian moderator will shortly be given the boot.

So I don't see this as positive at all.

There is a comment on there from one of the contributors saying that Shn Faye has said about prisons they don't "expect" that self id will change anything and so that's all fine.

Erm.... Well one person with no specialist knowledge thinks something will probably be fine, so we can all down tools and go home

Actually what that means is, don't worry your pretty heads about that ladies, the men in charge will make sure everything is AOK.