Fucking hell, India Willoughby is seriously slandering Karen Ingala Smith

If someone claims to be Napoleon, addressing them as 'Monsieur Bonaparte' isn't really being respectful.

I use she because I’m a nice lady who tries to be respectful usually.
However it’s beginning to grate my nipples and the gloves will be coming off.

Ironic that’s she’s on fubar radio.

Fubar stands for fucked up beyond all repair.

I mean if Indian thinks they are a woman, they shouldn't be taking it personally at all.

*Scabbersley^

I genuinely don't understand why she seems to hate Karen Ingala so much. What she's saying is so nasty and personal!

I agree. They are white hot with fury. It's difficult to comprehend.

I know narcissistic rage is quite prevalent amongst TIMs, but this seems to take it to a different level.

They've taken it profoundly personally.

Nice to hear there are at least a million of us eh?

Here’s one... guess after the ‘millionth message’ it still isnt sinking in eh?

Waves at India good luck blocking me love,I have never interacted on twitter for anything outside of business reasons. I will happily continue to expose your utterly hateful and misogynistic posts here though. Screenshots are great huh?

I genuinely don't understand why she seems to hate Karen Ingala so much. What she's saying is so nasty and personal!

If it's someone that uses the word "cis", someone that wants to invade women's spaces, someone that thinks lesbians should sleep with men and that transwomen cam be lesbian, or is otherwise disrespectful then they can get fucked.

Good point, I cannot argue with this, I am very torn on this and feel compelled to tow the socialised line I guess, but I will admit, its incredibly hard when faced with IW’s specific and recent type of bs.

I 100% have ZERO qualms with referring to Andi Diers and others like him as a HE though, following the disgusting behaviours and predilictions he allegedly has displayed.

Got myself one too 😂😂😂

Agree, Guardian. I think language has a power and I feel dishonest saying 'she' when referring to a man, and also that if other people are undecided on the trans issue but constantly reading 'she' and 'trans woman' in reference to a TIM, it becomes another way of moulding their thinking to the anti-science, TRA way. I don't want to play along with that.
I have issues with the term 'misgender' too. She and he refer to male and female -biology.
I do understand the desire to be polite and not hurt feelings, but being nice isn't a luxury I feel we have at the moment.

I refuse to use she, I avoid pronouns. It makes sentences a bit awkward sometimes

I also do this. It's odd because the pronouns didn't bother me for the longest time - I spent a lot of time in my younger years on a gay scene where men were forever using feminine pronouns for each other and I just saw it like that. Now it's become clear to me that it's a tactic of enforced validation so I won't be forced to comply.

Looked at the tweets incognito as I am blocked but apparently on Fubar radio at 6pm (not that I have heard of that station)
Perhaps we could forward some questions they could ask

I wince a bit reading "what a loser she is" and "she's deranged" or "she is nuts" - in a similar way I tense up when news reports of male criminals use female pronouns.

It is an insult to women and the drip, drip, drip effect of it desensitises people.

India, now matter how much India screams it, is not a women, not a her and not a she.

India needs to fuck off out of women's spaces and women's issues.

MN deleted a bunch of posts in the CBB section (someone came in and informed us that they had gone back over the thread reporting like 700 posts or something ) so people feel they have to use she for India.

Though I do also use preferred pronouns for actual transsexual people, kind of like how I would use someones new name if they changed it (I do not extend this courtesy to paedophiles and rapists such though, fuck that.). I know its the thin end of the wedge and all but it just feels very..wrong not to. Maybe thats my socialization showing. I absolutely do not and never will for transwomen with penis types though

I do a lot of the time, try to avoid pronouns altogether though tbh these days.

Besides, I do fully sympathise with those who genuinley have dysmorphia, and do want them to remain distinct from the TRA’s and AGPs. I wouldnt want to offend the former, by being appalled with the latter IFYSWIM, even though I agree that biology is frankly undeniable. In my opinion I think the appropriate pronoun usage is the fair and right middle ground, whilst still refusing to capitualte to the ‘real woman’ argument.

Maybe I havent fully peaked yet though!

Yes, Lady I understand that. In a real life setting I would probably use them or if I was on a talk radio segment or something. There is a danger in some situations that getting dragged for misgendering will dilute what else you are trying to say.

On here at least not so much though. I'm grateful for that.

I would personally call them men every single time. But I don't want to be deleted.

I believe mumsnet's last announcement on the issue, was you can say they are men, as a concept, but constant misgendering is a bit off.

I often find I have written a paragraph that says they, he and she!

Sometimes depending on the context. So if I'm furiously reacting about their maleness, I will, quite automatically, say hey. If it's more general I might say she.

Agreed Ova, however I think if we come across too harshly and unsympathetic when trying to explain our objections to those as yet ‘unpeaked’ folks, then the ‘real’ debate and key issues we have around TIM’s and gender self ID may never be heard. Like they say, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

You are right though, I cannot argue your logic at all.

Ordinarily I think it falls under politeness but given that we gave an inch and they took a mile the time for politeness has passed.

Most men on social media are not polite and never have been. They get left alone. We should probably learn from that.

It's that pesky female socialisation.

I am not sure whether or not not referring to someone by their chosen pronoun falls into the territory of being petty and hateful? I cant decide on this, obviously it is a dichotomy though, and as I no longer believe in the ‘transwomen are real women dogma’ I guess it smacks of doublethink on my part. I dont know how to comfortably reconcile this issue with myself If I am completely honest.

good question, I dont actually know how to answer you! It just feels fair and kind I guess?

I refuse to use she, I avoid pronouns. It makes sentences a bit awkward sometimes but try for the most part to not 'misgender' purely because of MN deletion policy - I have interesting things to say that must be read godammit!

I have noticed of late they are not as quick to delete and I suspect mostly leave it unless a post is reported.