Which women-only spaces do you use, and how would their removal affect you?

'Communal changing rooms aren't sexy and it's a weird idea that people are there because they're interested in seeing you naked, rather than just because they're getting changed themselves.'
It's often more about them being observed while naked - www.kiro7.com/news/transgender-woman-told-leave-womens-locker-room/246633184
It's a fetish.
As well as predatory males who might commit assault on women, there are males who get gratification from being seen naked in a women-only space.
I know it's not nice to think about, but it does happen.

To be honest I much prefer unisex toilets with floor-to-ceiling doors and their own sink.

No, I'm not joking. My cultural background isn't British and I find this is a moral panic over here, but completely normal where my family comes from.

Maybe men act differently where your family comes from?

And anyway, even if you are comfortable with it, can you really not empathise with women who, for whatever reason, don't want to see penises or for people to see their bodies either when getting changed?

PleaseDont yes derby is a contact sport.

Super Re: your friend, I think that's so sad & infuriating in equal measure.
I've never played derby and am too old to start but I've always thought it looked awesome (for want of a better word!)
I'm on GC Reddit quite a lot and it's mostly American poster. Many derby players seem much much less happy about TIMs being included than has been suggested here...

I really cant understand why some women cannot see why in our current society that to reduce the likelihood of harm and for girls and women to maintain privacy and dignity that their is a need for some spaces boundaried by biological sex. Just because you personally dont have an issue with stripping off in front of both sexes (naturist?l) can you not maybe think a bit outside yourselves ie young girls and older men ? I think most respecting men would be really uncomfortable with the idea of this.

We don't ban lesbians or gay men from single-sex changing rooms so I'm not sure why the assumption is there about men changing with women.

Because in the UK almost all violent crime is committed by men. Because in the UK almost all sexual crime is committed by men. Because is the UK men are a danger to women.

I would not use mixed changing rooms in shops, most have flimsy curtains and even if they were replaced with doors, they would probably not be full height.
Toilets: I have used unisex loos in France, and can do the special "not looking" at the men using the urinal. They were horrible- even with a full height door I felt very vulnerable and the smell! So no, I will not be using mixed loos.
I would have an issue with mixed wards in hospital, obviously when you are ill you don't have much choice, but the thought of those curtains being swished open in a ward with men staring- awful.
I always ask for a female hcp for "women's" things - ime males are much more likely to be rough or unsympathetic than females.

Just because you are not worried about these scenarios does not mean that other women shouldn't be.

Oh and girl guides? To my horror as a guide leader for many years, we are now a single gender organisation, not single sex:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

And don't think the scouts are any better either:

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/gender-identity-supporting-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

slug

You make a good point about the ladies' loos. There are often not enough of them and consequently, long queues.

Maybe we should let men start using them - maybe they'd give more of a toss and they'd build more?

You are happy to use to gender neutral loos. What I have seen happen, is that male and female loos are being re-labelled gender neutral urinals and gender neutral toilets. So men have the right and ability to use 100% of the loos in a venue. Are females happy to use a gender neutral urinal? Of course not, so we, meanwhile, are restricted to (presumably) 50% of the loos. Which we are obliged to share with all and sundry. Is this fair and reasonable?

No, I'm not joking. My cultural background isn't British and I find this is a moral panic over here, but completely normal where my family comes from.

We don't ban lesbians or gay men from single-sex changing rooms so I'm not sure why the assumption is there about men changing with women.

Are you joking? Do you ever read the news?

On a female ward after a surgical abortion. I was very young and there were much younger girls. I would have hated to be on a mixed ward.

I use public toilets and work toilets which are single-sex. I wouldn't use them at all if they became unisex.

My DD plays a team sport and is old enough to play for the ladies team now. If they admitted a TIM, she would have to stop playing a) because it would be too dangerous for her to play and b) because it would be a safeguarding issue with a TIM potentially sharing the changing rooms with girls who are under 18s. I'm wondering if the sports bodies have considered this cross over age group when U18s play on adult teams.

I can see this isn’t the place for me.

No, please stick around.

I have led a pretty charmed life. I've not used a rape crisis center, a woman's refuge or been in a psychiatric hospital. I've shared dorms with blokes and no one masturbated, and I've never hidden in the loos from a guy in a club (although like everyone I've had my fair share of harrassment). I married to a great guy, and although I have witness despicable behaviour from some men I know, generally I am surrounded by fairly sound blokes.

But

I have been thinking about this. For a smear test I would absolutely expect a female nurse. If I didn't know that the nurse at my surgery was a female, I would definitely request one. When I was in Labour the entire hospital, male and female, was looking up my vag and I didn't care, but for a smear test, where I am not trying to get a human out surrounded by people, I would want a woman. If I requested a woman and a TIM or, under self ID, a man rocked up, I would not be happy.

A few months ago, I had a lump in my breast examined by my GP. I wanted a female but there weren't any available and as I really wanted it checked I just went for the male, fine. He had a chaperone (one of the receptionists) and afterwards it occurred to me: if that chaperone had been a TIM (or man) I would have been in there two men having my bare breasts felt.

In addition to all this, in the end it doesn't really matter if self ID will affect me personally: no woman in a rape crisis centre, women's refuge, prison, changing room or toilet should be forced to share that space with someone with a penis if they don't want to. That's it really.

Sorry, that was long!

I have used women-only gyms, swimming sessions, saunas and similar. I would simply stop using them if men were allowed. I visited a friend who was in a psych ward and I met her in a lounge area that was mixed. A man there kept screaming at me and I felt quite unsafe because nobody seemed to be around checking on him. I can't imagine how it would feel if the whole ward was mixed. I had a smear test recently, if I had been unable to see a female nurse I would have cancelled. We have a TIM locally who is known to be agressive towards women and who likes to show his bits off. I would be extremely uncomfortable if my daugters and I had to share toilets or any private space with him. I am planning to send my daughters to single-sex schools, because in my experience sexual harassment is rife and schools don't care. I grew up thinking boys feeling girls up was normal and I don't want that for my children. Unfortunately I don't think anyone gives a shit if women like me are shut out of gyms and the likes .

I really don't give a crap about changing in front of men, and I don't understand why you're asking all these questions about masturbation. Communal changing rooms aren't sexy and it's a weird idea that people are there because they're interested in seeing you naked, rather than just because they're getting changed themselves. We don't ban lesbians or gay men from single-sex changing rooms so I'm not sure why the assumption is there about men changing with women.

@birdsdestiny I have never been raped so would not feel traumatised by a penis in a changing room ( although I wouldn't like it) So none of those things affect me. However I do care about the women that they do affect. To not care about those women would make me a bit of an arse I think.

To play Devil's Advocate for all those who say they're cool with seeing penis in a communal female changing room...

I assume you mean one where people are just busy getting changed, yes?

• What about if the man is just sat there, and every time you glance up, he's staring at you?
• What about if one of those times he suddenly gets up and approaches you quickly when you are reaching for your knickers?
• What about if he suddenly gets up and locks himself in a cubicle (you can add strange grunty noises to that if you like)
• What if his hand is not quite visible, say in his lap under a pile of clothes? What about if your daughter, niece, grandmother, religious friend etc was you? (and I appreciate birds* did point out she cared about women who are affected)

There is this weird notion that everyone who is up in arms about the trans thing is doing it just to get at the 'normal' people in life who are just using the facility like we are. We're not. We're thinking about how it will allow any kind of deviant perv to ride on the coattails of new rules and specifically use it to get their kicks. Because they don't come with labels for us to identify them from the normal folk so it's a general precautionary measure designed to maximise the safety of women from predatory men. It's actually got very little indeed to do with transgender people...

I always ask for a female doctor for anything concerning my biology. I like changing rooms to be single sex (both in shops and gyms).

More importantly (to me) my daughter plays netball- a female only sport - competitively. She chose Netball specifically because it was girls only as mixed sports always ended up with boys monopolising things and telling the girls how to do it “properly “. She is also a Guide for similar reasons.

I had a fun time when in a sleeping car on a train, when I was a student travelling alone - a man repeatedly going into my carriage and pestering me for sex

In Iceland public swimming pools are hugely popular (like going to the pub here). It is compulsory to shower naked before going into the pool. That'll be fun.

My gym has no communal changing areas. They had a huge refurb and locals and members were consulted about the changing areas if people wanted them remaining communal or single sex. There have been a few murmurs of complaints recently but, they were reminded by other users everyone was asked and they were members at the time.

Single-sex wards should be standard. I've stayed on both single and mix sexed and after I had an op and was on the mix sex ward I felt very, very vulnerable. Next op I was very distressed at the thought of mixed-sex ward to the point that I wouldn't have had the surgery.

Toilets should have fully closed cubicles anyway. Think it's ridiculous they don't. And with fully sealed doors.

All my psychiatric care is with females. Nurse, doctor and group. It was something one of the nurses and then the psychiatrist both fought for. I am very thankful for this. It's also been passed to my surgery and again, only the females speak with me and of course on my medical notes and crisis plan.

Girl guides should remain for girls who were born girls.

Women's Aid. Again, by sex, not gender.

Sports 3 categories. Men, Women, Transgender.

I have used single-sex changing rooms and toilets to escape to when I have seen my very violent ex. I have also used them in the past when I have been doing an everyday activity and something has gotten on top of me. It might seem weird that I run to the loo for a safe space, but where else is there to go?

the curtain nonsense in dressing rooms should also be ripped down and replaced with a door. Clearly, there's space so why not just put a door there in the first place?

I sometimes go to a female only club. Sometimes we just want to have a drink and a dance without being harassed. They operate like raves did back in the day, have cryptic clues and whispered calls to arrive to the final destination.

Personal care. There has to be dignity for the person having the personal care, and any person who is over say 11, should have their needs taken care of by someone who is there own sex. Or younger if the person/guardian has a preference. It is hard though because there aren't enough male carers so males are still looked after by females.

Changing room at the gym (no cubicles) - I wouldn't go if there were men in there.

Smear test - wouldn't go if it was done by a man

Single sex showers in youth hostel with flimsy curtain - I wouldn't shower if there were men in there

Public toilets - I wouldn't go (which would restrict my ability to actually go out) if there were men in there.

Midwife - I couldn't exactly hold the baby in but would have been very uncomfortable with a male midwife.

Ward after birth - would have discharged myself if there had been men staying overnight - visitors were bad enough.

I'm sure there are lots more, but the most important one IMO is statistics - as soon as statistics aren't divided by sex, the pay gap no longer exists, violence statistics become meaningless, sexism ceases to exist...

OP - you are protecting yourself against some of these situations, by buying private rooms / medical treatment. So not a typical experience at all.
How will boarding schools work - secondary level boarding schools ime separate boys and girls, in fact they put them in separate boarding houses. Presumably the dormitories may now become mixed? A boy could complain of unlawful discrimination if he is put in a room by himself, while girls share together.

Hospital wards. Regardless of my circumstances I would not stay on a mixed ward if even I had crawl out. On a psychiatric ward, it would be torture especially given the root of my mental health issues (although I've never needed in patient care).

Smear tests/other intimate exams. If it's not an emergency childbirth situation I want a biological woman. At the moment given my history, the NHS offer that without me asking for it. If they stopped, I would probably stop engaging.

Toilets unless they are individual cubicles with sinks etc inside and floor to ceiling walls. The same for changing rooms.

I have been searched by a man. At the time I didn't have a choice and he was fine but it's not an experience I wish to repeat.

Prisons definitely. I've never been locked up and I hope I never am however I've worked with plenty of women who have been in prison for various things. Most of their issues have men as a root cause, rape, prostitution, childhood abuse, locking them up with people capable of doing similar is beyond cruel.

I live in France and the local swimming pools and spa centres are always mixed. TBH I don't think there is any security problem as all changing cubicles and toilets have lockable doors and showers are individual and lockable. With people moving through all the time, I have never felt awkward. Well, no more than in the pool iyswim.

I once used an overnight train with a sleeper section. I booked my bed in a mixed carriage not knowing what to expect. Six beds in a room the size of normal carriage. I read a book and closed off my light. Terrible smell and funny noises. I didn't sleep a wink. Never to be repeated.

Also had male midwives (good), gynaecologists (universally awful) and GPs (mixed).

Agree with others, that just because in general I'm am personally not phased with mixed facilities, it's not something to base a policy on.

Interesting to read the posts on here and reflect on how often women-only spaces are actually used in daily life, professional life, health, hobbies, education, travel... Much wider than just toilets and shelters.