Which women-only spaces do you use, and how would their removal affect you?

This has got me thinking. I grew up in Sweden, which is less sex-segregated than the UK, so I find myself not being overly concerned by having a male gynaecologist, for example. I feel quite safe in the assumption that they can be professional, but would obviously react vigorously if any creepiness occurred.

Mixed changing rooms? Er, no thanks. You need to do stuff there that requires an all-female environment. My periods were always heavy, for example. On-the-fly hand-washing may need to happen, and toilet cubicles don't always have sinks. Very awkward.

I am also very aware of how common a fetish for dressing in women's clothing is for straight British men (much more so than in Sweden - no idea why). I have found it quite amusing at times, but in the context of self-ID, it stops being funny very quickly. The whole 'turned on by doing girly things' thing does not belong in women's changing rooms. Noooope.

Obviously any front-line services where sex-based trauma and/or violence is prevalent need to have women-only spaces. This should be obvious at the most superficial inspection, whether one has experienced them or not.

Hospitals. Same as fitting/changing rooms. Not mixed, please.

Fully dressed dormitory-style mixed situations on trains, boats etc. are at best weird, never relaxing.

Don't know what my finished thinking is here, but it's got something to do with safeguards and spaces where one needs to - and should be able to - let the guard down.

Because of course there is a guard.

Fuck, I’d forgotten about youth hostels.

Doesn’t bare thinking about.

I am really uncomfortable with mixed sex public toilets because I am scared of being filmed. I know this happens, more than you might think. I have been to a few places recently that had unisex toilets. They were cubicles with a shared sink area. I did use them but didn't like it. And everyone, male and female, looked very awkward at the sink area.
My male dp won't use the toilets at work when the female cleaner is in there. He doesn't feel comfortable with that. And before I became a sahm I didn't use the toilets at work when the male cleaner was in there. Even though I knew him and got on well with him, I had no fear of him, I just didn't want to go to the toilet while he was there. In the same way my dp is not afraid of the woman cleaner. He just doesn't want to use the toilet while she's there. And I think that's fair enough.

As for hostels, there is no way I would stay overnight in a mixed sex room sharing with strangers. I have done this once but the room was fully taken up by the group of friends I was travelling with. I certainly wouldn't do it alone. I don't think I'd be able to sleep. And I'm not scared of men. I have been raped and assaulted but I am not scared to be in the company of men in most situations.

Hospitals is a big one. I never understood the need for single sex wards before...I couldn't see it. Two things changed my mind.

1. A very close family member, who was sexually abused in childhood, and as an adult, had told me before she would not stay in a mixed sex ward. I thought, it's just a hospital, full of sick people. What's the big deal? (I was a lot younger then). She is in no way a feminist and I doubt she knows much about the current trans debate. After she unsuccessfully attempted suicide I went with her to hospital. The only bed available was on a mixed sex ward. When she realised there were men there, she went out of her mind. Screaming, crying, begging to go home. They discharged her early in the end. After seeing that I understood a lot more why it was so important.

1. Giving birth. When I had my baby I was kept in overnight. All the husbands and partner's stayed too, including my own. We just did it because everyone else was. I felt bad he had no bed so gave him mine for a bit when I was in no real state to do so. That was one negative...my choice to do that and that's just personal but had he not been there I wouldn't have felt obliged. Far worse was the very noisy man behind the curtain next to me. He spent the whole 24 hours talking at the top of his lungs it seemed like. It was awful.

All my smears so far have been carried out by women. I wouldn't object to a man doing it but I do prefer that I have always had women. My stitches were sewn up by a man after I gave birth. I didn't mind that.

But it isn't about me really. It's about all women and girls. And would I be happy following creepy Joe into a mixed sex toilet in a quiet area? No I wouldn't. Would I want my dd using one alone? No. I don't do sports, but the idea that a male bodied person can compete against women makes me feel outraged.

Mixed wards are an assault on basic human dignity, imo.

Single sex changing area at pool (much more comfortable when you're trying to change yourself and a toddler and the towel slips)

Toilets

Ward in hospital - would hate if there were mixed wards when recovering from surgery etc.

Once you take public toilets away, the rest doesn't really matter, does it, because you can't go out unless you know you will be somewhere which has a single cubicle? Or you resign yourself to spending a fortune on awful coffee and using a starbucks single unit, every time.

Unisex loos either have you trapped in an enclosed space with men way before you can reach the cubicle, or even if they are open corridors, perverts men leave the bloody cubicle doors open. Nope either to assault or being flashed at, thanks.

I hear you on the tradespeople. Sometimes there isn't much option (for example if you have a landlord and that's who they've sent), but I'm not happy about it.

One of them announced what he wanted in his tea once, without my having offered to make him any. Not a cafe, mate.

I highly value privacy regardless of the sex of others present so I wouldn’t use a communal changing room or hostel dorm for example regardless of it being male/female/unisex.

Statistically I know that men are more likely to commit violent crimes so I know I’m at much higher risk of being assaulted when I’m alone with a male. For this reason I don’t let male workers eg tradespeople into my home without having someone else present.

I had an abortion at age 17, and after leaving the clinic, I ended up in a public toilet with copious bleeding. I did my best to clean myself up, weeping the entire time. At the sinks, wet with tears, I had to scrub blood of my hands, while weeping, and from my face where I’d inadvertently smeared blood. Women there helped me. I can’t imagine going through that experience with males walking in and out, even if the cubicles were locked and built floor-to-ceiling. A friend of mine miscarried in the toilet at work. You can imagine her state of mind and body. Now imagine if a few of her male coworkers were present, simply because they identified as women that day? (Yes, some TIMs switch back and forth.)

My friends and I found a girl bleeding badly on the floor in the womens toilet. She had had an abortion. We had to physically keep out male rubberneckers who wanted to come in and have a gawp. We could do that back then, because womens toilets were for people with womens biology!!

She had one son who clearly had SN (and I had no issue with him being there at all) but in some weird mixed up thought process seemed to have decided that justified bringing the other two into the changing room too.

@Hairy

A few years ago I saw a discussion about just that in relation to public bathhouses in Japan (note, a culture more tolerant of same sex nudity and even mixed sex nudity at many hot springs, so the usual omg prudish never nude Brits why can't we all be like the Swedes argument doesn't apply) and the general consensus was that the absolute maximum age at which it was OK for a boy to be in the women's baths with his mum was 8, and that in many cases even that was too old. How in the hell do you justify taking 12 year olds in with you?

Speaking personally, for me when I was younger the big one would have been women's sport. I'd never have got to play football if I'd been up against TIMs competing for the same space on the team. They'd have been bigger, stronger, faster and have had all the benefits of the thousands of hours of practice a male childhood affords. I only started playing as an adult.

Most recently, in the communal changing room of my local pool, I had the delightful treat of a mother deciding to bring her son's (round about 12 - my DS is 10 so I can judge pretty accurately). I was pretty pissed off at the experience of having a couple of lads walk in on me then laugh at the naked middle aged lady (it wasn't sexual, it wasn't threatening, but it was unpleasant, and should not have been something I was subjected to).

Facing old age in a couple of decades I can't say I relish the thought of having my incontinence pads changed by a TIM if I'm unlucky enough to need residential care in old age - again, I wouldn't feel threatened but I would feel humiliated and demeaned by the experience - and respecting my feelings about my privacy and bodily autonomy should count for as much as respecting a TIM's lady-feels.

Broken record time again - sex segregation in certain spaces is the standard in our society. If certain people would like that standard to change the burden of proof is on them in terms of justifying why it should be changed. "I, personally, don't care" is not sufficient justification for imposing that change on everyone.

The majority of these posts demonstrate rational reasons why most women and girls want to continue with the right to request a female for health reasons/some areas to remain female only. So why every time we try and raise this we are being viewed as hysterical, terfy, transphobic. I feel that this is part of the lived experience of being a woman and i have to say i think to avoid self if becoming a reality we need more male voices to join ours (sorry if this is an unfeministic thing to say), the kind that dont want their daughters perved over in dressing rooms by men who are mentally unstable and / or sexually disturbed and no longer have access to the appropriate medical support, the ones who enjoy seeing their girls play football/rugby/martial but dont want to see them hurt because they have a man tackling / striking them, the men who also dont want to be accused of transphobia if they dont return the unwanted advances of another man who is claiming he is a woman. I am disgusted at the guidance that has come out of the uk swimming association that girls and women are expected to tolerate male bodies in the changing room (high risk) but a ftm cannot bare her breasts in a public area (low risk). If we are not going to seperate on sex based reasons why the hypocrisy once you are in the pool area that we need to cover up?

What we call “women’s space” didn’t just grow from the earth. Every inch of women’s space women marched and fought for,including toilets. There used to be very little sport for girls, and women fought to change that. Since there was so little sport for girls, they didn’t grow up to be athletic women, and so there were very few gyms that even accomodated women, much less had changing spaces. There were NO refuges or rape crisis services until women conceived of them, raised money for them, and built them themselves.

And

Frankly, it would have been even worse if the tech had been a TIM, because of the rape threats the activists have directed at women. I have very little trust in a male who insists on the right to penetrate female space and insists females should surrender their right to object.

And finally

End male violence, and then we can negotiate.

Men (and their allies) who insist on breaching women's privacy are exactly the kind of self entitled aggressor, steeped in male socialisation, who should be automatically excluded.

Materialist

Excellent post. Heartfelt, genuine and, sadly, far from rare.

The one time I’ve been made to feel uncomfortable in a communal changing room was at my last gym which had a couple of (it seemed) lesbians who would vigorously towel themselves, wander around naked and quite openly looking at people changing. I changed gyms

I find this statement a little bit questionable. What made you think they were lesbians OP?

Women only spaces/services I've used - toilets, changing rooms, hot springs, spas, gym sessions, sports, networking events, social events. I would not give up any of those things willingly. In some cases I've also used unisex facilities (not sports facility changing/shower rooms, and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever do), and still been happy that a women only option exists for those who want it. If I need medical care that's in any way related to the breasts or vagina I want a female practitioner. This is not unreasonable even if it's not something you, OP, care about. In the event that I needed psychiatric care, if there was any chance that I'd end up in a mixed ward I'd avoid seeking help rather than put myself at risk of that.

Even if you personally/some other women don't understand why many women want women only spaces why would that mean that the women who do want them shouldn't have them? This is not a situation where 100% of women have to require a thing in order for the thing to be available. If what you want is the percentages then a survey would be a better way to get that information.

I've a penis ... so I'm a man ... so I don't use any women-only spaces.

Their removal would reduce the safety of half the population.
Including some I hold dear, some who happen to be in my society, and others in the generations to come.

For the vast majority of those, the effects might not be large. For others, the effects will be tragic.

OP, your question suggests that what's at stake is trivial. Yet the sheer number of people disadvantaged and endangered is huge.

If I took down my smoke alarms, the effect would probably be negligible. A bit more anxiety when I went to bed or turned the oven on, but no biggy. Some small increase in the risk of life and limb, but only small. Yet if it's all the same with you, I'd rather you didn't argue away my right to put one up in the first place.

I have used my local Women's Centre and the Women Centres in other cities when invited by those who live there. I've had great experiences in them and in some of my darkest times they saved me.

I have used peer group therapies on and off since I was 11. I strongly prefer and get more out of peer therpaies with the knowledge of comfort of people who've experienced similar than one on one with a professional. Mixed-sex groups, particularly those led my men, are entirely different to female-only groups and while I benefited from women-led mixed sex groups when I was younger, I and I know many others who would not do so now. I particularly wouldn't do as my life experience, biologically and as a detransitioned person, is too often deemed hostile and transphobic and I won't go into a space to heal that expects me to erase or hide that.

Smear tests have always been done by a woman nurse and all of the tests and most of the care for my ovaries which started failing when I was 27 resulting in quite a few health issues.

I go to women's discos and hobby groups. My daughters regularly attend girl-only activities.

On the flip side, I was once the only female on an otherwise all male wrestling team. I was young, foolish, out to prove something. The harassment, the injuries, no amount of training or desire or identity or my personal strength was going to alter that situation.

Part of me used to agree with CrazyExIngenue, that shit happens everywhere so what's the point, particularly as a lot of violence I've survived has been at the hands of other women like when I was held down by two women while sexually assaulted until bloody by a third while in a room on a women's OB/GYN ward when I was 18 on one many times I've been attacked to "teach me a lesson". It's hard not to get pulled in that sometimes, but it's rather defeatist and ignores a lot of the data. We can't make it 100% safe, nothing in life will ever be, but we have plenty of data on how to make it better and safer. Many international charities and organizations openly discuss how important sex-segregated facilities are to keeping women in public spaces, in keeping women healthy and accessing medical facilities, in preventing harm, in keeping girls in school and women in careers. I don't think it declaring weakness to use the data we have to make our environment better for ourselves and really, I don't want my strength measured against a man or how much I can take without complaint anymore. I've been in single-sex and single-gender spaces and socially I can see room for both, but in our current environment with the information we know, single-sex spaces need better legal protection and resources. For some of us, it's saved our lives.

Childbirth. I asked for & received a women-only experience for my last one. It was poles apart from my other experiences.

Smear tests, always.
Mammograms (when the time comes), always.
Cycling club rides: I was a ride leader in both a road and mountain biking club and women-only rides really brought women on board. Without them many women would come along, get left behind, and often pack it in. There are some great women-only initiatives (BC's Breeze, for example) that are doing a lot to boost female participation. What would happen to those? We did have a TIF turn up on one of the women-only MTB rides one time and it was embarrassing how much stronger/faster he was than the strongest/fastest women in the club. There'd be no point to women-only rides if there was more than one TIF there because it would just be like a regular mixed ride.
Our local swimming pool has mixed changing area (separate locked cubicles) but segregated showers and toilets. At the velodrome it's very small open area with showers and toilets in cubicles, same at the pool my mum goes to. I wouldn't be comfortable changing in an open changing room like that with someone who was obviously male.

I live in a small town, don't know that many people but I do have the misfortune of having known two men with autogynephilia, which makes me think it must be pretty prolific.
One of them told me he masturbated in the women's toilet at the train station. I was only a teenager when he told me, I should have told the police but I didn't. I have been scared using women's toilets when it's quiet and there aren't any people around ever since. Their fucking sordid fantasies about going out in mini skirts without underwear and hoping women catch a glimpse of their erections, etc. There is not enough brain bleach.

My local leisure centre has a mixed changing village, recently a man was arrested for filming women and children changing by putting his phone in his shoe and sliding it under the gap at the bottom of the cubicle.