Trans and disabled loos

I am have trouble understanding what you are discussing, zzzzz. Do you want to change the subject to access to schooling for children?

I am a disable person and so I am aware of what and how things have changed, yes.

thebewilderness I don't think there is a legal priority as there is with bus spaces.
However it is surely obvious to common decency that the disabled toilets are left for those who need these facilities.

Gotcha foraging, sorry for the misunderstanding. In retrospect I should have guessed what you meant, but these are weird times with all kinds of weird alliegences floating around!

It has been quite a while but I remember fighting this fight. Disabled friends and neighbors could not even go to school to get the education that was mandatory for everyone but them.

It's quite all right TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole I can see how I phrased it a bit ambiguously.
I just don't see how their need for validation and fun and games should be my concern, is how I should have put it.

I never thought that the disable toilets were for disabled exclusively. I thought they were provided according to law so that disable would have access.

Ah right, I clearly read that wrong, sorry. Yeah, in that case I defintiely agree.

Foraging I understood what you said, that's why I agreed with it upthread

That last post was also to TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole
I was trying to say (badly apparently) that I see no need to change the way things are now.

coffeecork
When I said: AGPs who wish to barge into women's loos in order to swing their dick about among the "girls" are a group about whom I have no concern at all.

I meant I don't give a fuck about their so called "needs" or validation. Basically, they can sod off to the men's. Sorry if I was unclear.

AGPs who wish to barge into women's loos in order to swing their dick about among the "girls" are a group about whom I have no concern at all.

I don't understand this part? You have no concern about AGPs going into female areas to validate themselves and/or to flash with no consequences?

I definitely have to disagree there. AGPs (and MRA types) are the group i am concerned about, and it is them who will benefit from self-ID. Not people who have actually transitioned, as they already do use female areas generally.

I've been to a couple of places recently with just toilets. Bristol Royal Infirmary being one such place. A corridor of toilet cubicles all with their own locking door and hand washing facilities so nothing shared. Some were wheelchair accessible and had extra grab rails etc. Baby change also provided suitable for male or female child and parent.

Something I do not appreciate, is people who are not disabled volunteering our toilets on our behalf.

Exactly. It's insulting.

Something I do not appreciate, is people who are not disabled volunteering our toilets on our behalf.

I understand this!

I think the logic is that disabled toilets are usually single person, enclosed spaces with sinks. No shared space.

While the problem with penis in the women's toilets is the shared space and cubicles often vulnerable to voyeurism.

So disabled people are being asked to share capacity rather than private space. It isn't quite the same thing.

I agree that it's not the right idea because disabled toilet capacity is insufficient. The answer is greater capacity of single, enclosed toilets with washing facilities.

I have seen it commented on this board that trans campaigners had the opportunity to campaign for their rights via disability rights, but instead they chose to appropriate women’s rights instead.

Had they chosen to identify as disabled, then perhaps they could have campaigned for the right to use those toilets for those individuals who are genuinely struggling.

To offer use of disabled toilets seems like a further insult to disabled people.

Patodp.....I don't think even autistic people need to use the disabled loos. As they can use normal loos.

You don't know many autistic people do you?

This suggestion is as outraged as the suggestion for Trans to use Women’s Loos.

If you have a penis go into the mens OR campaign for your own loos. Stop pissing (excuse the pun) on other people.

foraging not flaming you but...

1. Hardly anyone had a problem with the status quo of dysphoric transwomen using women's toilets on a case by case basis.

1. You're okay with sharing toilets with AGP men. Fine. But I'm not. Why should I be legally required to provide props for a man's fetish? I don't want to do that. I don't consent.

1. However, the really big problem is that the normalization of self ID will allow any old male to access women's spaces whenever they wish. There are huge problems here: increased potential for predatory behavior, privacy and dignity issues, infringement of religious freedom etc. etc.

Re disabled loos, disabled trans people should use them and others should use the toilet of their sex, IMO. Alternatively, I like PPs suggestion of putting more cubicles in the men's and relabeling them unisex. This would accommodate women who aren't bothered either way and trans people, whilst preserving single sex loos for women and girls who want them.

Yeah, let's shift the problem to the lowest ranking in societal order...
When we reach those without a voice the problems will be solved.

I worked at a college with fantastic facilities, on each floor there were male, female and accessible toilets, each accessible toilet was different in that one had a hoist, another had a shower, third had a bed and a hoist - you get the idea.

Anyway one of these was designated as also for transgender people.

I have also been to a uni where the toilets were all single cubicles with a proper lockable door, wash basin, toilet etc they could be used by anyone (able bodied) regardless of sex, gender, self identification, I think this is the way we should be moving.

You have single cubicle toilets on trains and planes and no seems to have a problem with them.

People with disabilities have fought for their spaces and for access to participation in public life just as women have. So, while I'm not disabled and wouldn't dream of speaking on behalf of everyone who is even if I were:

This: Something I do not appreciate, is people who are not disabled volunteering our toilets on our behalf.

Not much different than TIM deciding for women that we're okay to share with them the spaces our mothers and grandmothers fought for, surely?