'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

Do you understand what "self-id" means @NatGrad59?

Actually of course they have. That's why we need sex segregated places in the first place!

What circumstances was the chief prosecutor for the East Midlands talking about and what data was he?using please?

And yes, it has happened. Men claiming to be trans have assaulted women and girls in sex segregated areas. Google it.

If a woman is in a public space or a women only space with a man being aggressive while not actually touching you, the police wont do anything, its your word against his.

This is not ok. Women only spaces are for women, not someone with a penis.

And how are you planning to stop those flashers coming into the women's changing rooms once self-id comes in? Goodwill?

This is not about trans people, it's about men?

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

The only reason one needs a psychiatrist to understand concerns is if they're the result of some mental disorder.

Actually I have been flashed by a man in a changing rooms. He wasn't trans but there with his wife and kids. I've also been sexually assaulted by a man. He wasn't trans. I'm on our local police advisory group and the police forces of two counties and the Chief Prosecutor for the whole East Midlands says there isn't a problem.

Shame, if you were you might be in a better position to understand our concerns.

I don't. I'm not a psychiatrist.

Your knowledge of how all this works is years out of date, Nat. Maybe do some reading, get yourself caught up, and then get back to us.

I mean, it's nice of you to offer to call in incidents and all, but that's not going to be much use to the women and girls who've already been flashed/had a male person who they don't know watch them undress.

Nothing. But how would you or I know. I'm all for action if someone does something offensive but I'm not going to challenge someone who just gets quietly changed in private, does their activity and leaves.

Let's be clear. No-one is talking about preventing anyone from going to the gym or for a swim.

The changing room for people with dicks is that way >>>>>>>>>

I have a teenaged niece. Whether or not she's expected to change in front of any male person who decides that he belongs in her facilities is my business.

That's clearly breaking the law and I'd be the first on the phone.

The probably want something called equality - perhaps they might not want to wait for 20 years to go to the gym or go for a swim. Have there been any instances of any problems over the last 8 years?

There have already been trans women stating that they full intend on being naked in public spaces like that as a form of "activism". You can debate whether or not those particular individuals are TrueTrans, but the problem is that the policy doesn't include any way to determine that (again, largely because trans activists would scream bloody murder if any such filtering process was attempted).

It's not my place to question people about their mental illness. But it IS my place to ensure that where women and girls who are vulnerable by virtue of being naked or partially clothed, they are not in the company of those with sexual fetishes wishing to invade their privacy or worse.
What is wrong with that?

How do you know they don't have dysphoria? Have you asked them?

How do you know they do?

It IS my business. It absolutely, 100% is my business. I'm safeguarding myself, my dd and all other girls and women.

How do you know they don't have dysphoria? Have you asked them? It might be that their dysphoria is so severe that the don't want to wait for 2 years for a first appointment.

NatGrad59
In the women's changing rooms in my gym (as countless people have pointed out) many women are unclothed. There are few cubicles and large communal spaces. So sex segregation exemptions are accepted.

As your examples illustrate, self ID ensures huge difficulties in identifying a paedophile, an autogynephile, a sexual harasser from a transsexual who has lived as a woman for 20 years. Thus rendering women unable to establish boundaries of safety for themselves or their children.

Do you have a view as to why transgender activists are so keen for women's boundaries to be breached in this way?

So in other words bathers should just mind their business. I have at least 2 friends who are not trans who get challenged all the time.

Although a trans person with autogynephilia is going to be right up for it and THEY ARE THE ONES WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.

It's extremely unlikely that a trans person would want to be naked in such a situation due to their gender dysphoria.

Yes, but the point of being annoyed by Swim England deciding to issue guidance supporting self-ID is that a large proportion of self-identifying trans don't have dysphoria. That's why they want self-ID and demedicalisation, FFS.

You are wilfully missing the point.