'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

But isn't that what a consultation would be. The government said there would be one 9 months ago. Nothing's happened. We don't know what is being proposed. I want to see what the proposals are and what safeguards there will be.

Nope, as above, a random man under this new guidance will be able to flash little girls in communal changing room safe in the knowledge that a) no-one can make him prove he's trans and b) staff have been told to 'educate' any distressed women and girls rather than challenge him.

Its irrelevant if they have a GRC or not, we cant challenge anyone who looks male now, can we.

Women now have to wait until they are attacked and harmed to make a complaint and hope there's CCTV.

The fact that we are not comfortable undressing around men has gone right over your head.

So they would go to the trouble of changing their name legally, go to a Commissioner for Oaths and get a new birth certificate just so they can hang around women's changing rooms. What are they going to say to their employer and their mates when their P60 comes along in May with a woman''s name in it? I've been swimming this evening and a man could stand in the seat in the cubicle and jump into the women's in a couple of seconds.

The applicant would have to swear that the change of gender is permanent and if made falsely would be a criminal offence.

Or declare themselves gender fluid so that they can be whateve they like.

Part of the problem, is the fact that there is no debate. Women who have tried to ask the questions to ascertain the facts havd been shut down and silenced. That is a big part of it. People are being abused and called transphobic simply for trying to understand what is wanted/meant/intended/what the inpact will ne.

freakingpeaking
I am not accusing transgender women of being a threat to children.
I am saying that self ID allows any man, including sex offenders and paedophiles to access women and children under the guise of self identification. And given the horrendous rates of sexual assaults, covert filming of women and children, 'upskirting' etc I believe that these are totally legitimate concerns.

I also question why there is such a massive campaign to access women's spaces. Respectful men who transition wouldn't make these demands. But I can see that autogynephiles - men with a sexual fetish for being treated as a woman - would be very keen on access. These are the people I believe should be kept out and I have yet to hear any advocate for trans imposition on sex segregated spaces address this.

You also can't ask someone to prove they have a grc. So the bloke waving his bits around in front of your 8 year old daughter cannot be challenged, even if he neither feels like a woman nor has ever claimed to.

What do you do? Exclude everyone who doesn't meet a set standard?

Yes. The set standard for being in a women's changing room has traditionally been and should remain "is female".

These aren't involving trans people.

So? It's still the law of self declaration that provides the loophole for them to do this.

These aren't involving trans people.

How are they going to police 'falsely' exactly seeing as someone can be transgender now without any change to their physical appearance, no hormones, no surgery, nothing.

In this situation a man could become legally a woman and his mates down the pub would never know about it. Except it would give him the legal right to hang around female changing rooms.

Given the lengths various men have gone to in the past to stalk and creep on women and girls what makes you think some won't abuse this?

How does that 'declaration help you make a risk assessment?' It doesn't. As now you don't know if someone in a changing room is a trans woman who has gone through the existing GRC process, is undergoing transition, not undergoing transition or not trans at all but perhaps not trans at all. What do you do? Exclude everyone who doesn't meet a set standard? Who will decide who gets to swim and who does not? Do we have to produce birth certificates at the door?

‘Shrodinger’s Trans’ is what we’re faced with at the moment. We have no way of knowing whether the man with a penis strippping off next to us is a genuine trans woman or Dave the voyeur. In what universe is this a good thing??

As far as I'm aware the person you're quoting is an accountant and publisher of a niche heavy metal magazine. Being as we're not discussing either of those subjects I think I'll pass on their opinions.

NatGrad59
How does that declaration help me to make a risk assessment when faced with a male in a confined space? At the moment if he is there he is a clear risk.
I don't have to wait to be harmed before deciding its safer to try to leave, scream or get help.

Do I understand 'what 'self ID' means?' In the context of the proposed changes to the existing law it means a Statutory Declaration made in front of a Commissioner for Oaths or Magistrate. The applicant would have to swear that the change of gender is permanent and if made falsely would be a criminal offence.

NatGrad59
and yet a quick Google shows several recent news reports of attacks in womens toilets including rape.

Plus the voyerism that women find disturbing.

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/hunt-man-after-woman-raped-14104951

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/kitchen-worker-sexually-assaulted-woman-911287

It isn't avalanching. It's been the same since 2010 when the Equality Act came in.

It was a she. The police officers I've spoken to in 2 different forces were both women too and of senior rank. I asked them a direct unambiguous question: ' How many women have been attacked in toilets or changing rooms?' They weren't aware of a single instance.

Don't put yourself in danger unless not doing so would hurt a trans woman's feelings seems to be the current, illogical, deeply misogynistic mantra.

Not even that...its Don't put yourself in danger unless not doing so would hurt any male persons feelings.

Given its all about self-ID. And seld-ID literally means, any male. Not a male iagnose with dysphoria, not a male who has had surgery to resmble a woman. Any male.

So we have to protect ourselves from males, while prioritizing the feelings of males. Makes no sense and is impossible. But it will still be women to blame when it all goes to shit.

Oh yeah I didn't think you agreed

I do think safeguarding is a useful place to start though.

Obviously they don't give a fuck about women. But they will have to at least pay lip service to the idea of safeguarding young children.

I'm not suggesting for a second that it makes it ok. My point is only that if the pesky safeguarding rules are an issue then the pesky safeguarding rules will be rewritten.

And that can be challenged and highlighted. I think it's potentially a fruitful area.