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Original poster

'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

331 replies

pisacake · 06/02/2018 03:16

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.

  1. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential
transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members, customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

OP posts:
StillTryingHard · 11/02/2018 10:24

I would be genuinely interested in what craigy said ....

TheClitterati · 11/02/2018 09:47

Or is that all on me too?

TheClitterati · 11/02/2018 09:46

Surely pools need safeguarding policies in place for children?

They might not give a fuck about women, but do they really think it's ok and a safe policy for my 6yo dd to get naked next to a penis in the women/girls changing room?

This must be in breach of their duty to her?

TheGoldenBough · 11/02/2018 09:15

Blimey, craigy. For someone who doesn't want attention from women you're trying awfully hard to get it! Grin

CraigyRichererer · 11/02/2018 01:48

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 13:54

Until a few months ago, it hadn't even occurred to me that a transwoman would have, or want to keep a penis.

Yes, I think this is where a lot of the disconnect comes into it all. The general public think 'transwoman' refers to a post op transsexual person. Or at the very very least, someone who has been diagnosed with sex dysphoria and is taking steps to 'become a woman'. So it seems feminists are being big meanies by 'picking on' these people who have a mental illness that makes their life pretty hard to start with.

Ontop of this, people really do not seem to understand what 'self ID' is. At all. Once you point out to them that it means their husband/ex/male friend/the guy who rubbed his hardon on them on the train last week/whatever could literally decide tomorrow that he is a woman and be able to go in womens changing rooms, well, they tend to click on to the issues then.

Ereshkigal · 10/02/2018 12:31

How do you tell the difference between this and a man who wants to go into women's spaces to intimidate or worse? Why does no one in government, proposing a law that would mean any man can say they are a woman, seem to be addressing increasing public concern about how this would work.

It's a question we need to ask every single person that supports this.

ChattyLion · 09/02/2018 20:22

Agree everyone

Everyonematters · 09/02/2018 10:08

The thing that disturbs me about this guidance, and the whole debate, is that the definition of trans is so far from the general public's understanding. Until a few months ago, it hadn't even occurred to me that a transwoman would have, or want to keep a penis. It would never have occurred to me to ask - I'm British! And generally believe people should live their lives as they wish, as long as not hurting others.

i would NEVER have thought of this person as a transwoman - but here they are (she is?), tweeting that anyone who doesn't believe them can suck their dick.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2876810-Danielle-Muscatos-tweet-on-international-womens-day

How do you tell the difference between this and a man who wants to go into women's spaces to intimidate or worse? Why does no one in government, proposing a law that would mean any man can say they are a woman, seem to be addressing increasing public concern about how this would work.

It seems to have become 'transphobic' to ask basic safeguarding questions when deciding about proposals for a HUGE change that would affect all women and girls. How badly could that go wrong?

ShotsFired · 09/02/2018 09:20

@CraigyRicherer ^@AngryAttackKittens I'm not a Man

followed by... @CraigyRicherer @AngryAttackKittens why would I want attention from women?^

Apparently the lady really do doth protest too much Grin

CAAKE · 09/02/2018 08:03

This thread has been cited in this article by James Kirkup for The Spectator 👊

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/can-we-have-an-honest-debate-about-gender/

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 09/02/2018 00:04

No idea craigy. Why don't you tell us?

CraigyRicherer · 08/02/2018 23:46

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BlindYeo · 08/02/2018 23:37

I've written.

AngryAttackKittens · 08/02/2018 23:30

It's probably the most attention Craigy has had from women in years.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 08/02/2018 23:24

I bet you do.

CraigyRicherer · 08/02/2018 22:42

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TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 08/02/2018 22:42

Transhobbit Grin

TransHobbit · 08/02/2018 22:41

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TransHobbit · 08/02/2018 22:39

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CraigyRicherer · 08/02/2018 22:37

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AngryAttackKittens · 08/02/2018 22:34

Banned is The same thing as having a Comment deleted now?

(Still don't get why MRAs type like this, it's actually harder work than typing normally. Maybe there's some magic formula that tells them which words to capitalize.)

You can't even fix your own drains, Craig? Tsk tsk, letting the man side down there.

birdsdestiny · 08/02/2018 22:33

Oh bless him.

CraigyRicherer · 08/02/2018 22:31

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TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 08/02/2018 22:27

Men have Invented most of the Important things in this world so if a few of them decide to become women then they should be allowed to use the women's changing rooms

"We've been controlling women for all recorded history so why should we have to stop now?"

Fixed it for you Smile

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