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Original poster

'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

331 replies

pisacake · 06/02/2018 03:16

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.

  1. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential
transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members, customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

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pamish · 03/03/2018 17:28

/\ sorry just checked back to see this has already popped up.

I think it's a test, like our mass dive-in at the men's pond. More, please, especially men who look really butch, followed by TV crews. Except there is no Self-ID form for them to use here yet, we'll have to mock one up, translated from the Danish?

.

pamish · 03/03/2018 17:23

Here's a guy testing the law in Denmark, presuming they have similar law. At least I hope he's testing the law.

.
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 03/03/2018 10:06

I agree secret

But the one trans young person i know personally is being persuaded to have the bottom part done by their online 'friends'

Apparently they've all had it done....

I have told their mum the statistics

SecretTerf · 03/03/2018 09:07

To be fair, the genital surgery is so horrific that I can imagine it's sensible not to undergo it however bad your dysphoria is. I don't think it's necessarily indicative of much to say that most TIMs (and the vast majority of TIFs) don't have genital surgery.

I do agree, however, that there's a particularly nasty section of the TIM community who like to show off their boobs and dicks at the same time.

FreeNiki · 03/03/2018 09:00

This is honestly reminding me of The Emperors New Clothes.

It took a child near the end to say But he doesn't have anything on!

When is common sense going to prevail. They are men and that is that.

CAAKE · 03/03/2018 08:53

Betsy I think those figures mean that most of the TIM who have surgery keep their meat and veg but have breast implants and facial surgery. There are a bunch of them on twitter who happily show off these anatomical facts for all to see.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/03/2018 08:18

86% of guys who claim they are women (TIM - Trans Identified males) keep their genitalia. If that doesn't sound alarm bells I don't know what would.

LangCleg · 02/03/2018 22:16

I also saw this from that Paul Dirks guy on Twitter:

There were 4118 SRS surgeries from 2000-14 in US. Numbers way smaller prior. Increasing significantly after. Estimated total= 8000

This cannot be emphasised enough. The population of actual transsexuals is tiny. Really. Not worth even counting.

The number of men who say they are women with, at best, jelly tits, is bloody enormous. Most of these men are heterosexual. This enormous population is what's coming to our private spaces.

AngryAttackKittens · 02/03/2018 22:15

Actually Betsy now you mention it that does create quite the mental image!

BetsyM00 · 02/03/2018 21:58

Hang on thebewilderness, does that mean 1% of TW still have their testicles AND have a neovagina!?

furcoatnaeknickers · 02/03/2018 21:14

I’m sure that ibi guy is taking the piss isn’t he, to make a point. Otherwise why was he wearing a swimsuit?? He said he didn’t feel the need to change his appearance and was wearing ‘male’ clothing, so why not trunks?

thebewilderness · 02/03/2018 19:35

Info from the US plastic surgeons.
"May 22, 2017 - Of all procedures on transgender men, 95 percent involved the breast or chest and 5 percent on the face. Most transgender people forgo gender reassignment surgery, with only 11 percent of transgender women having had their testicles removed and 12 percent undergoing vaginoplasty,"

Amethyst975 · 02/03/2018 19:25

That guy is a wind up. He’s just exposing the reality of self-ID...isn’t he???

I think he might be. Could be wrong but he sounds/looks like he's acting.

shetheyhim · 02/03/2018 19:16

That guy is a wind up. He’s just exposing the reality of self-ID...isn’t he???

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 02/03/2018 19:01

mimi

Once i started i doubt i could stop

And i would be deleted Sad

mimivanne · 02/03/2018 18:50

Rufus

very unseemly words/phrases at a guess

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 02/03/2018 18:19

mimi

I cant say what i think about ibi

mimivanne · 02/03/2018 17:55

Ibi-pippi can barely conceal the smirk

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 02/03/2018 17:38

Fucks sake

What is actually wrong with the world

mimivanne · 02/03/2018 16:53

Please let this not be the future

pamish · 14/02/2018 15:42

agggh but just look at who runs that site re Target. Anti-abortion 'christian family values' etc. Will always be used against us. Can we find that info on a less horrible site?

freakingpeaking · 14/02/2018 06:31

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CraigyRicherererer · 11/02/2018 12:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Everyonematters · 11/02/2018 10:50

Not just transsexuals

Everyonematters · 11/02/2018 10:49

Clitterati yes they are in desperate need of safeguarding policies. The swim England guidelines say that anyone trans should be able to use whichever changing rooms they like. Their definition of trans is explicitly not transsexuals and is hugely wide (see attached). Their definition of transphobic is 'fear or dislike' of someone who identifies as trans.

So according to them if your daughter is afraid of any man who decides he falls into these guidelines and therefore wants to use the women and girls changing rooms she is transphobic. And needs educated.

Any set of guidelines that leads to the above conclusion is not an appropriate policy for safeguarding young girls or women.

'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)