Woman's Place UK meeting in London, 27 Feb

I believe he has read the letter.

It's worrying because I know at least one other person has signed the letter just based on his comments about it.

This is a professional body with a professional journal.

Transgender Trend say that the article published had no recognition that young people who say they are trans may not be 100% certain, and that other options need to be explored before we medically alter their bodies for good.

I agree with Transgender Trend on this, it's such a big issue to change someone's body that we have to know they are certain before we commit to it. It's not something that should be rushed into.

I can see why it might have raised personal feelings for him, but we're in a profession that has to set personal feelings aside. We need to be able to explore other options, or we become like the pregnancy advice clinics who are really a cover for anti-choice organisations. We're forcing our agenda on people who need to explore their own options.

I'll be writing my own letter in support of Transgender Trend for pointing this out.

I was there too but didn’t get to meet fellow mumsnetters.
Overall it was very inspiring to hear the speakers, all 3 were very impressive, balanced, fair and eloquent.
I felt uncomfortable with some of the comments from the floor and felt more strident moderation was required. In particular the standoff / argument between Heather and Sophie was inappropriate and they should have taken it outside(so to speak) when it became apparent it wasn’t just a short statement in response that Heather wanted to deliver. I felt sad that as women this demonstrated a lack of solidarity and we were all in a room witnessing two women at odds with each other.
I also didn’t like the heckling from upstairs when some transwomen spoke. That is not who I am.
And finally, the protesters outside were sad and pathetic and very young, and I felt all attendees should have walked away instead of shouting back at them which is what happened as I was leaving. But that’s just me, I like to take a moral high ground where I can!
Everything else about the evening was fabulous and I have a lot of respect for all the speakers and contributors.

Hygge - there seems to be a lot of knee jerk reaction from people who probably haven't even read it.

Anyone know who the Lib Dem woman was?

Xpost. Hygge Maybe she has some doubts about her transition and the letter is bringing those home. Sounds like sticking her fingers in her ears and going “lalalala I can’t hear you”. I would definitely take it to her and ask her to clarify what is wrong with the letter. It might help if you look genuinely confused and concerned. 😉

That’s shocking Hygge. I wonder how many people have signed it without reading the letter? He sounds like an Orwellian character. You will believe it because he says it and you’re not permitted to know your own mind. When you get a copy, take it to him and ask him to explain his issues with it. I wonder if he has actually read the letter himself, or is he just jumping on the transwagon.

I have found the letter he is asking people to complain about, and can't see anything wrong with it.

Transgender Trend actually seem to be asking that other options are considered before we rush to dramatically alter children's bodies.

I won't be signing.

I should have said before, the person who asked me is a FtoM trans person, so they obviously have a personal interest in preventing Transgender Trend from discussing the issue.

In even more upset I couldn't make it after reading this. Very interesting about Sophie Walker. I think Catherine Mayer has driven their policy on his personally (and having met her and found her very rude I'd imagine she's hard to influence). Interested to see if anything shifts.

Pencils I am just about to look up what transgender trend is. I've been asked to sign a complaint about a letter they wrote being published in a professional journal, yet the person asking me to sign is so far refusing to show me their letter or the response published by the journal.

He is implying they are some kind of crackpot hate group, yet I found his refusal to share the actual letters more concerning.

Also get transgender trend's schools pack out to your DC's schools.

What a wonderful night! Thank you BeUpStanding for organising the pombear rendezvous.

There were suggestions for what to do - Scottish consultation (urgent), write to Women's Aid, but mostly just keep spreading the word among ordinary women who are not in the political bubble.

Can't stop looking at Miranda's tweet and giggling

Oh I so wish I had been able to go. It sounds like an amazing event. Although I’m a gobshite on here I think I would have sat in the corner like an awestruck teenager, with all these amazing women around me. 😁

Reading this has given me some hope in this bloody twilight zone. Women are so much stronger than the TRA believe. We’ve had to be, in order to survive the crap that misogynist men and indeed women, have thrown at us since we were born.

One of the most or rather only, positive things about the push for self ID is that women are shaking off the ‘shame’ of being feminists. We no longer care if we’re called man haters, ugly, bitter, etc. We know those are insults used to keep us in our ‘place’, while men are simultaneously trying to claim our spaces. I am a REAL feminist and I will continue to centre women. Thank you to all the amazing, strong, articulate women on here, I’m not just happy to tell people I am a feminist, but proud.

I do agree Sweary (though I wasn't there last night). I'm centre-left personally, but this is an issue that transcends party allegiances. It's important that we don't alienate Conservative women - especially as the Tory party is currently the only one appearing to have a re-think on self-ID. It would be self-defeating to turn the battle against self-ID into a left-wing one, as that would make the Tories less likely to support it.

Why don't you email WPUK and mention your views? They keep asking for feedback.

I came away a bit conflicted about the evening. Very much enjoyed the speakers and thought they spoke very eloquently. Particularly Pilgrim Tucker talking about how this issue is motivating people who have never been politically active before. Then it kind of got a bit exclusive, i felt. Lots of talks about being socialists, trade unionists etc and nothing for people who aren’t left of centre. I thought both the Liberal Democrat woman and Sophie Walker were brave to stand up and highlight their lack of leftist credentials.

It’s such an important issue that crosses all party boundaries. I brought it up at a conservative women’s meeting last week and had people talk to me privately afterwards that they were grateful I had. Everyone is cross about it and we need to include people from all political persuasions.

I also thought that at the end there could have been some suggestions of what we, as individuals can do. I think WPUK can do a lot of good as a pressure group and it could have been suggested at the end that people might do X or Y, particularly to people new to this who feel a bit helpless.

Knowing what comes next and what we could do en masse make a greater point, or knowing when the next meeting might be in London might have helped.

There's the Million Women Rise march through London on March 10.

People who know tell me that unlike the Women's Marches, this one really is about women & girls.

I would loved to have been there. What's next though? The meetings are a great idea, but does anyone know what future plans are? I would like to take part in a march on this, and take part in further action but can't see where it's heading.

A variety of women were there too... really old to the really young, walking sticks and wheelchair (in that weather!!) , conforming, non conforming, BAME.... a good mix. And I am guessing that for everyone who made it, there are another 5 who couldn't and a lot more women lurking, reading ...

Really great to see and hear so many strong women all in one place!!!

It was a really uplifting evening.
People who dismiss concerns should hear the range of people and experiences, beginning with the woman who talked about her detransitioning and the growing influence of transideology in making many lesbians feel they are in the wrong body.
We are in danger of sleepwalking in to the loss of sex-based exemptions because, as the fab Scottish woman from @object! said, women are too nice and too accepting. Lucy Masoud fought hard for women’s spaces in the Firebrigade and said bosses are watching this debate playout and will jump on the chance to save money, tick the right-on box and just make everything gender-neutral.
It's clear that if the WEP/Labour/Greens can't define what a woman is, then we just have to hope Tories see enough political mileage to backtrack, as per recent comments from Justine Greening/Amber Rudd – consultation begins in March, I thought I understood?
It was great to have transwomen Debbie Hayton and Kristina Harrison say that they were with women on this, as well as MirandafuckingYardley, so people can stop thinking that all transpeeps are down with the aggressive translobby too.

So pleased to meet up before. It was like a “Mrs Brown goes to town and buys…” game of everyone’s MN name – I think I can do Empress/Beupstanding/LifelongVagina/Pencils/Datun/Erishka/Goodenough/Sweet grapes/Huloo/I seetrouble/Archery/Noraclavicle, someone with a TS Elliott poem user name - also spoke to the lovely Astraia (terfragette) on the tube.
Sad I can’t make the March 14th one at Millwall, but would like to meet up again.

Wow this sounds brilliant.
I am so happy the lib dem woman was there. Might start getting more involved now to try to influence their policy

I made it just. And managed to get home thank goodness.
I found Sophie WEP quite moving and she was very brave. She then dug a hole and chucked herself in.
The few children outside were really a bit sad and silly. But their shouting helped me fins the venue.
Jennifer James was interesting - a letter going out to Labour on Friday asking them to clarify position on AWS.

Sounds like an amazing night, I wasn’t able to get there in the end as work ran late and I wouldn’t have been able to get there until 8.30 stupid work.

I am so relieved that SW was there at all, tbh, as what feels like the only gender critical MNer WEP member hanging on by my fingernails. I’m so disappointed and quite frankly embarrassed by how the party has dealt with these concerns so far. I’ve felt unwelcome in the party to be honest (when bringing it up at a local branch meeting I had one younger member ‘disagree’ - she didn’t accept that discrimination against women is based on our biology - and the rest of the room just looked confused or uncomfortable at actual debate). How HB-E has been treated is a disgrace.

So SW accepted that the WEP response has been inadequate thus far - listening and taking notes, hmm. We need a working party on this.

If anyone is going to be going to the We Need To Talk event in March I’ve got that day off and hope to meet some of you wonderful women there.

Thankyou those that made it there to make our voices heard.

Managed to follow it on Twitter, as loads of brilliant people were tweeting the proceedings. Almost as good as being there, except I didn't get to go to the pub

The one upside to this fight is the number of amazing women you get to meet.

I am WELL JEL.
Good job everyone.
Interesting that Sophie W is claiming HBE's version is incorrect. But fair play for being there. I just realised that one of my former tutors has a chapter in HBE's new book, so I've ordered it. I'm curious what has pissed off WEP (but chuffed that I have identified another academic that is openly critical and alive and kicking on the activism scene.)

Brilliant night.

So many amazing women. And famous faces.

Sophie 'shit or get off the pot' Walker banged on about being slow and listening and taking notes. Good of her to brave the 'opposition' though.

Then Heather B-E took the mic. I'm not sure if either of them knew each other was there, prior to that.

And said, something like right well I shall tell you exactly what happened.

And explained how she was hounded out. At which point Sophie could be heard saying none of that's true.

I wanted to shout out, well bloody let's have it then. Right here, right now, let's hear it all.

But no one seemed to have the heart for it.

There was a woman from the Lib Dems there, saying she was listening.

Lucy firefighter was amazing. A really strong speaker. With fire in her belly.

The protesters started yelling as the meeting began. Then disappeared, presumably bogging off to the pub, because it was freezing. And showed up again 20 minutes before the end.

Interestingly, I recognised the one in the orange neon jacket. The exact same woman that was yelling burn it down at the speakers corner meeting.

It seems as though they only have a handful of foot soldiers that they deploy. All women. Funny that.

Miranda Yardley set up a counter chant, to their transwomen are women, yelling women don't have penises and transwomen are men.

The protesters started to crowd on the doors as people were trying to leave and Helen Steel (I think?!) stretched out her arms to create a channel for people to leave. Brave.

She inadvertently touched Orange Neon, who, on a knife edge of righteous tension, barked at her (don't touch MEEE) at which point Helen said well bloody well move back then. The 'you twit' was silent, obvs.

A bunch of misguided, passionate kids, really. And not a man in sight, freezing their arse off and putting themselves on the line.

Brilliant, too, at the pub afterwards.

Lilly Maynard, Stephanie Davis Arai, Julia long, Miranda Yardley, Maria Mac, and Alan and her husband, Marcus (who dissected Julia Seranos theories), Venice Alan and loads more.

Mumsnetters were prevalent, throughout.

During the meeting, we got several mentions, and every time someone said the word mumsnetters, a big cheer went up across the venue.

We were told, in no uncertain terms, that politicians are 'petrified' of us.

I'm reminded of the that quote by Caroline Aherne.

So, Mr Politician, what first attracted your concern over the TWELVE MILLION women on mumsnet?

For me, the evening was shot through with solidarity and unity. A wonderful coming together of like-minded people, each drawing inspiration from the next.

The speakers were good some of them were bloody good. But little was talked about that is not already regularly debated here.

Mumsnet is at the centre of this.
We are rated and feted.

And mumsnetters made it, quite simply, an awesome experience. Drinking, laughing, talking, piss taking and snorting.

You women rock.