Woman's Place UK meeting in London, 27 Feb

Another here with a Tory MP. I haven't approached them yet (on the to do list!) but someone who has says they were more than sympathetic. Dammit, I'll have to resist taking them to task about schoolfunding, disability benefits and the NHS, won't I, in order to talk to them about this.

Can someone point me to the marvellous Sex Matters document (I think was what it was called). I want to send it my MP if it's ready to go.

Another lefty but with a Tory MP, and I was impressed with his response when I went to see him (back in Oct? November?) He is on the Justice Select Committee too so the prison stuff made him stop and think.

Definitely cross-party is the way to go - thee are simply more of us that way, and though we need to convince those in power, we need to make the other parties wake up to the fact that they are throwing women under a big stupid bus, and that they cannot do this.

LibDemWoman well done you for speaking, you were great xx

Yes my MP is an out and out Tory and when I wrote to him last year when the changes to the GRA were first mooted, he was v sympathetic.

Let's not forget it's the lefty dude bros who are desperate to shine their inclusivity credentials at zero personal cost who are helping the TRAs gain such traction.

Owen Jones, I'm looking at you.

^GRAYSON PERRY & CATHERINE MAYER
Hello Boys. How Feminism Can Save the World, If Not Your Sex Life.

26 February 2018 - 7:45pm Bridge Theatre

One hundred years ago this February, the first British women got the right to vote. Some British men believe everything went downhill from there.

Grayson Perry and Catherine Mayer agree that life could be made better for men – by making life better for women. They just don’t always see eye to eye on how to do this. Join them for an evening of discussion, laughs, gender politics and gently glowing debate.

Grayson Perry is an award-winning artist; Bafta-winning TV presenter; Reith Lecturer and bestselling author with traditional masculine traits including having the desire to ‘always be right and to overtake all other cyclists when going up big hills’.

Catherine Mayer is an award-winning journalist; bestselling author; and the president of the Women’s Equality Party, which she co-founded by accident after ‘being handed a microphone in a theatre. Oh’.

Grayson and Catherine encourage you to bring along your misogynist uncle, the pal who doesn’t ‘get feminism’ and your partner or colleague who insists the gender pay gap is a myth.^

This is why folks, they are all a bunch of luvvies. This is vested interest at work. It's the Women Entertainers Party

Makes me sad I missed the Manchester meeting. It feels like something big is starting to rumble here, though. Let's keep the momentum.

Fully agree that influencing the party in power should be the priority.

The Tories do need influencing. At the meeting I went to Amber Rudd was speaking and she back-pedalled from the question I asked as fast as she could, saying that they were going to "take time and slow the process down" re speaking to women about the issue. She also said that TIMs in prison was only "a few cases" as if that didn't matter, and that we should speak individually to organisations that were implementing self ID already.

We need to lobby hard on this.

ContemporaryPankhurst - I was really impressed by my MP and at how willing she was to discuss this all openly. She said that she had been worrying about what is going on her children's school re. trans issues. And she's told me who she's discussed this with - I don't want to out her, but they are prominent politicians. I've never voted Tory, but at the moment I'm glad she's my MP rather than the Labour bloke I voted for last year. I would be so annoyed to get the response that some on here have had from Labour MPs (including being called a bigot, it seems - completely unacceptable to talk to constituents like that, have they learnt nothing from Gordon Brown?).

BigEthel you will never be billy no mates at a Radfem meeting! No matter how shy you are just say you are from MNet.

DaisyDrip brilliant to have you as a friend. Keep up the hard work. Throughout history one of the most seditious and revolutionary actions has been women talking. Particularly to each other.

SwearyG I have peaked my mother and we are experiencing a role reversal. For many years I found it difficult to get off the phone with my mum, she would keep talking for about 5 mins after I said I had to go. Now it is me who wont stop talking about this issue!

TerfyMcTerface That's brilliant news. It appears that Conservative MPs are being allowed to engage and discuss this. An inside party mole who holds a Labour position said they had all been advised not to engage or touch the topic, the furthest they can go is to thank constituents for sharing their views. As with other party policies it is being dictated from the top, only they can speak on the issue.

Very long time lurker and infrequent poster. I had a ticket for last night, and couldn't attend for dull reasons. I'm currently sitting having my hair done and reading all your posts, with a massive lump in my throat. Sounds like an amazing evening, and that there is a real energy and commitment to stop self ID and who knows, maybe abolish gender bullshit once and for all. I am a woman because I was born one. My chromosomes and reproductive system (all its strengths and weaknesses that have involved years of infertility/IVF and finally last year a successful pregnancy) defines my experiences, not what I wear or some innate chickbrain feelings.

Can I also add my voice to the call to ensure this is a cross partisan effort? I am centre left and most definitely not a momentum/Corbynite, and there is a real risk of this getting bogged down in internal Labour politics when it is an issue that effects all women.

All power to you all, the speakers and the organisers.

To be honest, I think the short term aim should be to influence the Tories anyway. They are the ones in government. They are the ones who are beginning to show some signs of increased understanding of the issues - already conceding no changes to the EA, which is as important as changing the GRA.

Labour appear to have doubled down and won't be changing stance during this parliament at least. They will need to lose an election before they reconsider. I think we have to acknowledge this.

I like A Woman's Place. While they are from my own leftist tradition, they're very much aware that this is a cross party issue and are welcoming to all. So I'd encourage anybody from the Tories or the LibDems to go to a meeting or amplify their demands on social media and in real life. The campaign is not party-specific.

And, if you have a Tory MP, write, write and write again. Make it clear that self-ID and the EA will determine your vote in the next election.

ContemporaryPankhurst crosspost, I’m not a Conservative but I’m descended from them - and I peak transed my very politically active councillor parents recently. I’m pushing them into action too and will get them to do what they can in their positions and with their political contacts.

I couldn't make it but I think you're all amazing. Hopefully I'll be at the next one (probably sitting in a corner like Billy No Mates too shy to speak to anyone!)

It sounds like such an incredible night.

With Conservative women I have found that they are really 'liberal' in a way, particularly when it comes to women's rights and LGB equality, maybe I am just lucky.

I had a very constructive discussion about self-ID with my tory MP, who is a proper feminist and LGB supporter. She is currently talking to senior people in Parliament about all this. I agree it's really important that this doesn't get turned into a left-wing cause when, realistically, it's the current government that we need to work at persuading. I think it's unfortunate that last night's meeting seems to have made an assumption around supporters being left wing, when this is an issue that affects ALL women.

LIbDemWoman.... I am one! Long-time Mumsnet lurker but wanted to let you know you're not alone..... Your long post is very similar to my own history/ views/ frustrations. Thanks for speaking up

LibDemWoman what a great post! I said upthread that I thought you were brave and you have explained why you weren’t - and good for you. I know that I wasn’t brave enough to have done the same. I wholeheartedly agree that there is no reason not to laud the positions of the people who have started and are the driving forces behind WPUK but as someone who struggles with confidence and imposter syndrome I felt that I didn’t belong, and I’m sure other women might feel the same.

Making this known as truly cross party and inclusive is so important as it affects every woman in this country much like women’s suffrage did.

I’m a LibDem member and was considering leaving the party on this issue (the conservative women thing I did was to support/embarrass my DM). If you want to PM me maybe we can start a gender critical LD movement.

ContemporaryPankhurst I'm centre right/Conservative and I'm standing right there beside you. I'm also mentioning this to friends and family as well as in general chit-chat when out and about where possible. This really isn't a one or two party issue, it's a woman's issue.

LIbDemWoman - I get what your saying. I felt so isolated a few months ago. There are days still when the feelings of isolation, 'am I doing the right thing' come back. It could be worth 'testing the water' with a few other LibDem women, just discussion and pretend ignorance. As one speaker said 'I've lost two friends, but gained friends with 100s of fabulous women'.

I think the feeling of isolation is deliberate. I often notice abuse tactics in the TRA's playbook. It seems like they have taken the method of an abusive individual in an intimate partner setting and applied these tactics to society at large. The DARVO is shocking (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender).

< waves to LibDemWoman >

Am very glad you spoke up! (I'm a Labour voter, only able to remain so because my local MP is sensible on this issue. It's grim being attached to any party at the moment.)

LibDemWoman
I’m not affiliated with any party and tend to vote Lib Dem, especially since Brexit, so not everyone is Labour.
I thought your contribution was excellent and it was good to demonstrate that we are drawn from various political parties and yet agree on women’s rights. One point I wished was discussed more was the sad fact that 100 years after (some) women winning the right to vote, I now find I can vote but have no one to vote for. It makes me feel very powerless.

SwearyG please encourage more Conservative women along! It's very socialist/Labour/Trade Unionist at this point in time because that is who it started with and who they know and can invite to talk. It would be fantastic to widen it out and hear other voices on the issue. I feel like saying, but it sounds so silly, let's expand the friendship group. It feels like if they didn't give so & so a call its because they don't have their number, not because they don't want to talk.

Its the same for women who are not political activists or active members of parties. I really want some women not from this group to get up and talk. Lets hear more from mums! From teachers! Etc.

LangCleg - thank you - a bit long but I've been thinking about it since last night.

IndominusRex - I did think about leaving but I've got know where else to go and anyway, I've been a Lib Dem supporter for nearly 30 years and a member for 20 years - I don't feel like being hounded out.

When I first joined the Lib Dems, I joined because I thought it was important to stand up and be counted, even though there was no chance of getting into government. It's the same now, as a gender critical feminist, if I leave I won't be counted.

ContemporaryPankhurst - if there are any more gender critical Lib Dem feminists out there they're being very quiet, although I may not be looking in the right places....I would love not to feel quite so alone

LIbDemWoman - I was so glad you were there and spoke. I'm former Labour and eyebrow deep in our party infighting and the fresh new hell they bring us every morning. It is so important that we have cross-party friendship and alliance on this. I really appreciated hearing what you have experienced inside your party.

LibDem, Labour & Green are all left so we should all get on easily - I think we all want the same things really, social justice and to protect our environment. With Conservative women I have found that they are really 'liberal' in a way, particularly when it comes to women's rights and LGB equality, maybe I am just lucky. Isn't it Nimco Ali (of the 'bad-place' : WEP) that had a public spat with St. Owen of Bromentum that if she needed to work with a Tory to end FGM she would, some issues override simple party politics.

I think we are more dangerous and powerful because we come from each party. Please encourage more LibDems!