#itsallgoingpeaktrans

How about you go fight "for rights for all people", MrsMcGarry, and feminists keep focusing on women like we've always done?

MrsMcGarry I feel 'cis' a derogatory word with zero linguistic value when prefixed to 'woman'. Do not label other people and decide on their identity. It makes your support of self id look nonsensical.

I do not misgender or deadname trans people, I respect their choice of name and pronoun. In return, I expect the same levels of courtesy to be extended to me.

Not moving on to accept that we need to be fisghting for rights for all people (whilst recognising that we still have far more work to do on women's rights and that much oppression is still based on biology) will simply entrench us in a sex based battle for ever

But we cannot fight oppression based on biology (which you seem to agree is a thing) whilst also championing the rights for male bodied people to take away our ability to name our biological based oppression.

The two things cannot co-exist. It does not compute.

And that's ok. if an individual feels uncomfortable with another individual when it comes to personal care

Did you not read about the woman who asked for another women to do her smear test, and was presented with a transwoman who claimed she was what had been asked for?

And really, what sort of a person applies for a job in DV centre knowing that the majority of clients are going to be triggered by their presence?

Im glad that you are happy now after your experiences.

Im also pretty sure many abused and traumatised women don’t give a shit if the male in question is nice or not. They don’t want him anywhere near them regardless. You surely must realise that ?

Hence why women’s aid currently only use biological women. Because they know and understand this. Self ID could change that.

Not all fucking penises.

I do actually feel really sorry for people who think like that.

I've just got out of a crappy marriage where there was sexual abuse. I know that men abuse women. I know that we have to work really really hard to stop it and I know that it needs far more financial support.

But I'm also having amazing sex and a truly equal and supportive relationship now with the kindest and loveliest man who would never dream of using his penis for male violence.

Not moving on to accept that we need to be fisghting for rights for all people (whilst recognising that we still have far more work to do on women's rights and that much oppression is still based on biology) will simply entrench us in a sex based battle for ever

“if an individual feels uncomfortable with another individual when it comes to personal care, they should be allowed to refuse them”

The point is they might not be able to do so in the case of self ID as it would be “transphobic”

The entire point of having female only spaces for things like refuges is because the women in there have been so badly abused by “people” with penises (men) and are so traumatised they need to be somewhere that’s male free. I’d have thought that would be blindingly obvious.

Yes. I just don't think that an absolute sex based segregation does that. It implies that Vagina:Good, Penis:Bad. As the mother of both a daughter and son I hate that. And I think continued emphasiss on it will only serve to damage everyone.

So for example in refuges, I think a blanket ban on transwomen working in them is wrong. There are many women who I defintely wouldn't want to be working in refuges, both trans and cis (and pls don't get arsey about the use of that word - it has relevance in situations when we are talking about the difference). An interview process enables unsuitable people to be weeded out, based on their unsuitability as a person not based on what they have tucked into their pants.

I do actually belivee that any person should be entitled to ask to not be treated medically by any other person. We can't make indiviual people be undiscriminatory, we can legislate so those discriminations are not enshrined in law.

I had a male midwife during one pregnancy. He was amazing. Best ever. There was a women who had refused to have him examine her. And that's ok. if an individual feels uncomfortable with another individual when it comes to personal care, they should be allowed to refuse them, as long as they accept that may cause repercussions for them such as having to wait for someone else to be available.

Penis and the male violence that accompanies it is exactly why we have safe, segregated spaces. Why else would we have them?

How are women meant to distinguish between proper trans and MRA nutters? The trans umbrella has been opened so wide that it encompasses practically anyone.

If self ID becomes enshrined in law there is no point having any segregated services. Maternity services and labour/ delivery wards will be the last bastion of things that are solely for women and it's only a matter of time before transactivists come up with some batshit word salad to disrupt those.

I don't doubt that this whole thing is driven by a few loons on Twitter ( I don't do Twitter-to me it's just a marketing tool or a forum for the green ink brigade) but the fact is the mainstream media and therefore the mainstream politicians and schools are basing policy on the drivel that a few lunatics come out with.
Probably because the perverts and the mysoginists have hitched their wagon to the LGB movement, and most people think that being in favour of "trans rights" is the same as being in favour of gay marriage or something.
It's not on the radar of most people (yet) that men in knickers are trying to take up space that should be just for women.

I think I peaked at the point when a man won CBB in their special Year of the Woman "all female" series...

The nutters have taken over the entire debate and it damages women and transwomen

I couldn't agree more.

How do we keep them out?

its not self id that does it, its nutters.

and if you are so angry for trans people, why are you throwing them under the bus being driven by the nutters?

And there are plenty of anti-trans nutters as well - so many women who have never met a transperson (nutter or not) are basing their anger on the social media posts of nutters which are being amplified by the arguing and sharing of female nutters. The nutters have taken over the entire debate and it damages women and transwomen.

Several FB friends broke cover and reached #PeakTrans yesterday. A Green party member, an ex Liberal democrat that campaigned for Labour in the last election and one who has never been a feminist or political before.

MrsMcGarry we have to, because they are trying to get into our safe spaces.

We know these people don't represent the trans community and we are angry for trans people that they are being lumped in with nutters. But that's what self id does. That's why we're against it.

nutters yes.

so tell them they are nutters. plenty of trans people do.

don't curate the nutters, share their views all over social media and make the extremes fuck up the lives of normal people.

Folks, can we dial down the rhetoric a bit? I don't think it helps the quality of the debate to describe each other's views as 'disgusting' etc. If someone is really being offensive, report them.

Fighting against allowing transwomen access to changing rooms because of this would be like throwing black people off the buses again because of Malcolm X.

No love. The current trans activist nutters are advocating something along the lines of white people stomping to the back of the bus and telling Rosa parks to give up her seat! Transsexual (genuine people with dysmorphia) have ALWAYS used women's facilities, because we were courteous enough to let them.

And I have known a few transvestites in my time. The one who decided they were "transgender" is a pretry messed up and agrressive individual who I used to pity.
My politeness is gone and so is my pity, sadly.

Declaring yourself female does not make someone not a biological male.

Biological males account for the vast majority of all violence, in particular sexual violence.

Transwomen do not break from this patter.