#itsallgoingpeaktrans

Sometime in the eighties I hit peak tolerance for male dominance displays, so when The state transferred a male into the female prison to protect him from male violence I learned that there are no depths to which they will not sink nor no peaks I will not reach if I listen to men.

Thank you for your post pidgeon. I am sorry they are riding roughshod over you too.

I have known a lot of trans-indentified people, probably more than the average person, and I can say without hesitation that only one of them was a stable pleasant human being (and just so happened to be a FtM, make of that what you will.)

The MTFs I've met have run the gamut from stalking, masturbating in front of unwilling women, screaming abuse when someone tried to have a meeting about them breaking house rules, trying to get people fired for disagreeing with them, having mental breakdowns over men crossdressing for a laugh and threatening to rape me with a machete.

So on average, 90% of the trans people I have had dealings with (and I'm not talking arguments, these were people I interacted with socially) have been abusive in some way.

Thankyou

Though I am very aware that currently it would be very difficult for any one to tell the difference between me and 'them', and I wouldn't want to cause distress to anyone so I stick to unisex changing areas etc.

Luckily (probably not the right word) I am disabled and visibly so, so there is no toilet dilemma for me.

I am definitely behind the idea for a third space though, and I think all transsexuals would be fine in there, as I seriously doubt you'd catch these AGP's etc. in there. Ironically they seem desperate not to be seen as trans except for when it suits them (spouting off about their rights to run roughshod over women).

I sincerely hope I've peaktransed quite a few of my own friends and family (some of them were initially appalled at my first reaction to this 'nu-trans' wave.

Pidgeon

hipster I think you are right. 3rd spaces all the way then.

morningrunner I didn't disagree at all with your point, or think I had any right to tell you how to feel about it. My post was motivated by my sense that we have got a lot of people to convince and that what works best in changing minds is being painfully low-key and reasonable - which we can afford to be because our arguments are so strong.

I would have no issue with sharing a space with a true transsexual, like you, Pidgeon. I have a lot of respect for people who have went ‘the whole way’, and more trust for them, than the creeps that are using trans as a way to access women’s space. It must be such a distressing time for you. 🌹

Can only echo the above posters pidgeon.
Much love to you.

Yes, quite. Nothing but absolute sympathy and solidarity from me, Pidgeon.

PidgeonPodge, thank you for your perspective on this.

You must be raging about all this Pidgeon, I'm sorry it's so shit for you too

I've peaked so much over the last few months that I now refuse to refer to myself as a transwoman. I can't reconcile being complicit with what is happening right now.

I still slip up sometimes but I'm now just going to be writing 'transexual' on any forms etc.

It has the added bonus of seeming to really piss off trendy 'transgenders who don't actually want the mental disorders, self hatred medical process or any of the actual hassle of being a transsexual.

Just the sexual thrills for being thought of as a woman and a way to shit all over them apparently.

Great post Hipster, that's it exactly, there is no way to weed out the perverts. It seems ludicrous to me that we have the whole #me too campaign, the grid girls, Weinstein etc when at the same time we're being told we must accept something which makes it a million times easier for men to abuse, intimidate, humiliate and dominate women! 'It's all so depressing' about sums it up, I need one of those tshirts too PERF

I've just re-joined MN after a lengthy break, mainly to be able to join in the discussion on the Feminist boards. I peak-transed over a year ago, when I realised that the Transactivist movement had little to do with old-school transsexuals and much more to do with pushing the agendas and entitlements of MRAs, autogynephiles and assorted fetishists.

I work in a university (teaching a humanities subject) and the atmosphere around all this is positively McCarthyite. Our VC is totally woke and I've recently found myself wondering how quickly I'd be out of a job if I were to teach second-wave feminism, or tell my students that gender is a social construct.

Am drafting a letter to my tory MP (not someone who likes to put her head above the parapet) about self-ID right now.

need

At the end of the day anyone self-iding as a TIM and being a rapey bastard is an argument against self-id. It doesn't actually matter who they really are or why they're doing it.

I agree, Tallulah, and it’s why I now tend to think the GRC has had its day.

Before the internet gave dangerous individuals the concept of ‘trans’ to work with, and facilitated online coaching for the purpose of faking gender dysphoria, it seemed to many like a reasonable concession to transsexuals (despite the overlooking of biological facts aspect).

Now that the trans umbrella has all and sundry under it, and there’s no way to weed out the perverts (especially if there’s no recorded offending) and pisstakers, and overlooking biological reality no longer feels like an accommodation we can afford make, the GRC process doesn’t need seem fit for purpose.

MrsMcGarry if your son is truly a feminist then he shouldn’t even think about sharing a space intended for females, as he would have some understanding of why they don’t want a man there. The fact that you think we should give up our safe, sex protected areas, would strongly suggest that you have very little understanding of what true feminism stands for. I used to be very keen to prove that the abuse that I suffered at the hands of men, throughout my childhood and early adulthood didn’t turn me into a man hater, that I became a right on, lib fem, not all men are bad, handmaiden.

Thankfully the wonderful women of mumsnet have given me the strength to work through those issues and realise that I no longer have to be right on, to prove I’m not a man hating old feminist. I CAN and WILL protect women’s rights and I don’t give a shit what men and their handmaidens think about me or call me. And I can still love the good men in my life, while centering women.

with respect MrsMcgarry how does a safe space for Women, remain a safe space if Penis’ are now acceptable? I dont get it...

How is it still a safe space?

There was a male midwife at the hospital my kids were born in. Nobody had a particular issue with it, but if he had worn a dress and called himself Petunia there'd have been a fucking riot.
Sometimes men can legitimately be in women's spaces, it's men masquerading as women that are the actual problem.

I totally agree with safe spaces. I just don't think we have to segregate them based on the possession of a penis.

You may well be happy to get undressed in front of random men. But it is patently obvious that a great many women are not. You appear to be saying that their boundaries should not be respected. Why not?

I've raised a feminist son. I'd feel far safer in any space with him than I would with women like Katie Hopkins or Anne Widdicombe

Well of course you would. He's your son! To other women, your feminist son is simply another random man. I would not expect to find him in a women's changing room. On the other hand, Katie or Anne would have every right to be there, as changing rooms are segregated by biological sex, not by political opinions.

I think I’ll get that on a tee shirt, as I seem to be saying it so often. it’s all so fucking depressing

So many handmaidens fighting for the rights of men in dresses. It’s so fucking depressing. I had a very interesting conversation with one of my boys last time he was home. He was telling me that he was walking home through back streets, in the very early hours, after a night out. There was a young woman in front of him and he was saying that every bleeden road that she was taking, was the one that he needed to take! He was saying that he couldn’t believe it and was trying to hang back, he’s like a bloody giraffe and she was tiny, so it just made him look even creepier. Apparently he could see her looking behind and knew she was nervous, so decided to try to take a different street, so that she’d feel safer. He got very lost and after we had a good laugh, I told him that it was so lovely that he recognised her fear. He is generally a lovely, caring young man.

Sorry that was so long, but there is a sad follow up to it. When I asked him why then he couldn’t recognise why women don’t want to share intimate spaces with TIMs he tried to say that was different and I was suggesting all TIMs were rapists. Honestly! He could understand why a young woman was afraid of a strang man behind her, but not of women not wanting to be undressed or using toilets while a TIM is in the same room. It’s all so fucking depressing. ☹️

I wouldn't have minded a male midwife, but I absolutely understand that an awful lot of women would mind.

My coil was fitted by my male doctor, he put me at ease and I didn't mind. However, if he was wearing women's clothes I would have minded very much because it would have demonstrated that he was, at best, suffering a mental health issue, or at worst, getting off on the validation. I would not want to be naked and legs akimbo in either circumstance.

"I know nice men, therefore laws and rules that protect women from men aren't needed" is an argument so obviously bad that it's astounding how often people make it.

MrsMcGarry Are you seriously suggesting that segregated spaces are no longer necessary because you've raised a feminist son?! And for some bizarre reason you are personally afraid of Ann Widdecom?