Tamsin sutherland

As you were

Thankee ma'am but I'm not in anyone's toy army, and don't need permission to speak.
(Unless it's the mods ..bless you every one.. doffs cap.)

This "tinfoil hatter" is off to bed now, a quick howl at the moon, a listen to my voices and away to the land of Nod.

Enjoyed your company everyone and especially infamousT

InfamousT
Welcome and

I need to sleep now but I will be back to read the rest of this thread tomorrow.

Eh? I was talking about capitalism and the environment, not your weekly recycling

No desire to shut down your discussion, truly. I’ll leave you to it.

As you were.

Innit just Traffig ?

I'm ignoring that.

BlindYeo everyone goes under the bus now, eh?

hipsterfun I'll put my own personal environmental record up against yours if you like. I produce 1 bin-liner of rubbish a week, and have never, ever bought a bottle of water. Ever.

My carbon footprint is barely bigger than my real footprint. Did I not say it wasn't perfect?

GuardianLions That's a really interesting anecdote... I see a lot of endtimes stuff from the evangelicals too... they all believe this stuff in the Abrahamic faiths...

I'm glad I'm an Atheist - but heck, no Rapture for me then!

They play the best music in Hell though ;-)

Well nearly everyone has an agenda, one of mine being no self id pervs in safe spaces.

Tinfoil hattery .....is this the new shut down word? Really?
Tell me what is tin foil hattery and why and I'll listen.

No other system has brought so much peace and prosperity to so many in such a short space of time.

Yeah, but...

Some of that has been to the benefit of the West, at the expense of people elsewhere.

And any thoughts on the environmental issues resulting from this marvellous prosperity and the drive for endless growth? (Apols if you did, I’ve only skimmed tft.)

You don’t have to be a frothing Marxist driven by envy to have some serious doubts about the system.

You have the entire world to lose... and Humanity is counting on you to make the right decision.

Chill... really. Aside from environmental issues, which you don’t seem to be including, I think you’re overdoing it a bit there. Almost as if you have an agenda of your own.

And there is a hint of tinfoil-hattery creeping in on this thread.

I left Labour, my local MP is firmly pro trans and no longer answers my emails.

I believe we are watching the rise of fascism, and I feel like an impotent bystander. Because this time there is no effective political opposition, its just us.

There is certainly the parallel in the cowardice to be seen amongst certain "intellectuals" such as the QC UpstartCrow mentioned.
Too much to lose if they speak the truth...

Maybe Upstart you could join the Labour party to help shape policies from within?

Yes kittens

And it is weird the way I have a physical response - hair standing on end - fight-or-flight readiness I have NEVER felt from all the gender-benders I've been hanging out with for years.

A weird, new breed.
Perhaps it is the porn-sickness - there's probably not a man under 32 who hasn't grown up programming his brain with orgasms to endless woman-hating images on the internet.
You can sense they want payback for something.

Thank you for posting and speaking so honestly, Infamous T.
I believe we are watching the rise of fascism, and I feel like an impotent bystander. Because this time there is no effective political opposition, its just us.

I remember the QC that withdrew his support from the petition and without question, there was something going on behind the scenes. It was sinister. He wouldn't talk about it.

*An old friend of mine came to visit the other day and she knows nothing about this (her career is all-consuming, caring and she hasn't got anything left in her to keep up with current affairs).

We were discussing the current generation of gender-bending males and how we actually find them intimidating when we bump into them in public.

Its not like the 'New Romantics' or something where you felt men were being a bit dandy-like and glamorous. These current men with beard/lipstick/eyeshadow/dress combo have a threatening presence and we found it hard to put our finger on what it is.

My friend said it is the fact that they are big males, with broad shoulders, big hands, and a huge sense of entitlement.

But I detect some deep misogyny in it. The way they subtly relate to women in public spaces you can sense a "come and have a go if you think your hard enough" confrontation about it. They are almost daring you or goading you to say "piss off out of appropriating womanhood you prick" - just so that they can self righteously knock you out in front of your kids. They use their wearing of women's clothes as a form of public male domination.

She's the first person I have spoken about that with.*

Thing is, I loved the New Romantics and have been involved in various other subcultures full of flouncy, glamorous men for most of my life. Was always fine with that, still am. Have had boyfriends who I've shared shirts/accessories with. I'm 100% on board with men being GNC. But the current breed of trans activists aren't GNC at all, like you said, they have a downright macho presence and everything about them comes across as bullying aggressive sexist dudebro. MRAs in lipstick, basically. The lipstick I'm OK with, though wearing it shouldn't mean that you're allowed to change in the women's area at the swimming pool. The MRA part is a problem, and doesn't become less so if you dye your hair teal. Plus there's the fetish element, which most of the ones who aren't gay (and some of the ones who are) have, and which makes interactions with them downright violating for women and girls.

These are the last men on earth you'd want to share intimate spaces with, basically, especially if they're strangers and you have no way of knowing if they'll escalate from getting off on violating your boundaries by just being there to violence if fail to look sufficiently "supportive". I'd rather take my chances with the average bloke in the pub than with a man with AGP.

Don't be fooled into selling yourselves and the future of your children down the river for some specious perceived short-term gain.

You have the entire world to lose... and Humanity is counting on you to make the right decision.

You might find it heartening to hang out a bit more in the Mumsnet feminism forum - a small oasis of free speech on the internet.

More and more women are getting aligned on this issue, writing to MPs etc, realising we are not alone and in fact are considerably great in number. I believe this will give us the confidence to go out en masse to publicly protest soon.

Maybe try not to get hung up on the couple of people who have been rude to you (I think there is palpable fear that mention of Soros leads to anti-semitism, leads to -well it doesn't bear thinking about, does it?), and think about everyone else who have been positive. I think we are all on the same page pretty much.

Thank you for the support Traffig

You pretty much nailed it with that post. I think I have been called everything under the sun now, and by people that simply melt back into anonymity afterwards.

I stand by my words - and am prepared to die by them too.

I've picked my hill... and shall offer up a fearsome defence of my own particular point of view.

I'm begging for someone to prove me wrong, but that doesn't appear to be forthcoming from any quarter.

I have quite the collection of slurs now, and they simply don't effect me because there is absolutely no truth to them.

I'm opposed to bad ideas - just that. Nothing more... and I happen to thing that - for all it's faults, our capitalist Western Civilisation is the very, very best that Humankind has thus far come up with.

It's not perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it is far too precious to sacrifice to the mass insanity of Marxism, in any shape or form.

Here's a thought experiment:

Think about your life. Each and ever single aspect of it. Your home, your work - how you travel... what you eat. Your clothes, your entertainment, your gadgets. Right down to the smallest thing.

Now think of the production lies that brought it all to you. Think of the line management involved - the jobs, the families reliant on those wages - the children of those families.

Think of the R&D and research and invention, creation and construction of it - all of it. Think of the time and effort put in just to provide you with the life yo enjoy - even at the very lowest rungs of Western Society.

Think about how easy your life is compared to that of your own parents and grandparents. Think of how much poverty has already been eradicated, and continues apace right across the world.

No other system has brought so much peace and prosperity to so many in such a short space of time.

Think of the young men that fought and died to bring us these freedoms... those that died fighting TRUE tyranny. Their bravery, their sacrifice.

No, it's not perfect - it's a work in progress, one that we continue together, good Men and Women working in harmony to the benefit of their families and of Humankind itself.

This modern notion of 'progressive', as ever with the radical Marxist Left is a misnomer - it means the opposite. If you think that wiping out women as a class of Humanity is 'progressive', then maybe you really do need your head examined. It is retrograde, regressive and oppressive, no matter what the paid for shills of the Neoliberal elites tell you as they attempt to stock the fires of the politics of envy in you mind and hatred in your heart.

What we have built here in the West is remarkable - incredible. Black white, yellow brown and red - together.... with plenty of hiccups along the way - we are now more actually civilised now then ever before.

Are you willing to risk it all? To throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater for some perceived slight that you have been told to feel?

For envy? Jealously? Rage? Revenge?

Think on ladies, I implore you - when you flick the switch, the light comes on and you think nothing of it.

Now look at Venezuela.

Think long and hard, please, about just what it is you choose to protest about. Good men are not the enemy, they may be course and boorish at times... the bad men are the likes of Weinstein - and the very worst women, those that would protect someone like him.

All the rules are changing now, the ground has shifted - and we are ALL prone to being played.

Don't be fooled into selling yourselves and the future of your children down the river for some specious perceived short-term gain.

You have the entire world to lose... and Humanity is counting on you to make the right decision.

My eyes have been opening wider for a number of years on various issues which I think are bad news for women and bad news for this country. I have felt very silenced on them in real life by well-meaning handmaids among the Left.

I think eventually each and every woman is going to reach her own personal moment of WTF? as the land grab of women's rights, freedoms and protections finally touches her personally.

I saw it a few years ago when I saw something personally of what we were turning a blind eye to in the name of cultural sensitivity. It's happening to many on this board now, over transgender 'rights'. Sadly we can never ever assume our rights are secure and don't need protecting. I'm glad the fightback has started. But it's going to be touch and go.

(I apologise if what I am speaking about next makes me seem goady- in the light that people find this convo unsettling)

infamousT
I remember a couple of conversations I had with a muslim bloke I knew in about 1992 (when I was very young and knew pretty much nothing). He was one of those alcohol but not food during Ramadan types.

He told me that Islam was the fastest growing religion - which I didn't believe, because I didn't know anyone who had converted.

But the other thing that stuck in my mind, was that he said that the Islamic prophesy of the end of the world, was that you would know it was coming when you could no longer tell the difference between women and men. He told me to look about and see how men and women looked more and more like each-other. I haven't heard that anywhere else, but its possible this is standard Muslim belief, since he wasn't lying about the fastest growing religion.

I thought he was being an ignorant, sexist prick and a bit like the hippy haters or parents who were disturbed by the Beatles mop top haircuts, or freaked out by Boy George.

But I wonder if that's the link? Perhaps some people gain by making Muslims freak out that the end of the world is here, by getting swathes of people to identify as the opposite sex and take cross-sex hormones?

Just a bit of wild speculation...

Thanks for the support Datun

To those of us that refuse the notion of being 'woke' and prefer the idea of being 'enlightened', I realise a lot of what i have said is pretty much common knowledge by now. I really do just urge people - men and women alike - to take the time to have an extremely deep ponder about all of this.

We live in the propagandist age, and literally anyone that is being PAID to tell you stuff is invariably lying.

I'm completely independent - I'm on nobody's payroll.

I sincerely trust I have provided food for thought - that's all.

...anything i can do to help.

I'm hearing you infamousT. I have been wondering why I see the Regressive Left throwing women to the wolves on various apparently unconnected issues, from Cologne to the transgender agenda. Accusing anyone questioning of being a 'phobe of some kind.

@iamawoman
Thank you for starting what has turned out to be an amazing thread. I may not agree with Country Squire, but would definitely read it before the Daily Mail.
@infamousT
I found your article insightful and thought provoking, as are your contributions. No sycophant here, but I respect and admire your fight for your child and what you did.
I may disagree with a few things you say, but you are absolutely no tinfoil hat wearer.
I've said it once before here. I have no time for women who cry "loony" to others because they disagree. It's the low tactic of someone who has no good answer to a point of view. You are clearly no Fool.

Psychiatry, is often used to oppress women and minority voices, as we both know to our cost. The suggestion that you are somehow " not quite right dear" because you stick to your beliefs is laughable. I detest the attempts to use Madness as a means to non platform your views. I hope that you stay. and speak your mind, and spar a while.

Ah! and I too come from a time when we called a shill a shill.

Thank you for coming on the thread.

T

INSIST on knowing EXACTLY what your children's teachers are telling your kids - pull them out of classes that preach the 'diversity' dogma and the Gender Unicorn - my own Court battle sets algal precedent that kids do NOT need to know about gender identity issues as it is 'too confusing', even at he age of 10.

I can provide copies of all documents pertaining to that if ever required.

If you don't mind, I'm forwarding that info to someone who is challenging this issue through the DfE.

They might well find that documentation useful. So thank you. I didn't know any precedent has been set. Apart from that one child who was removed from the reaches of Mermaids by the court.

Also, I don't think it's a secret that Soros has injected millions into this. It's fairly well documented.

I've got much worse haters than you out there.

No one hates you, truly. But you have fired off a lot of volleys.

Most women are coming at this from the point of view of their rights.

Although, the wider issues, like who is benefiting, is it social engineering on a global scale, paedophilia by the backdoor, a wholesale power grab, or just common or garden misogyny because women have suddenly progressed in their (political power such as it is), are frequently discussed.

The solutions you suggest are, of course, excellent. And women are, indeed, organising collectively to do most of that already.

It's been an uphill struggle because of the censorship. But that is now, slowly, but inexorably, changing.

Standard response frogsoup

You started it. I finished it.

TBH I have little left to say now, but I do hope that it's been noted how you have done nothing but make attempted slurs in an attempt to undermine anything I have to say.

...and that says more about you than it does about me.

I've offered up my credentials - you've just repeated propagandist soundbites. Well done.

I've got much worse haters than you out there.

Ok after replying one more time I'm now going to hide this thread, not because I'm flouncing, but because I can't stop looking at it and it's bad for both my productivity this evening and my mental health.

I don't want your respect (why would I?). I am not trying to assassinate your character, I am responding to your express statements. If you don't want to be accused of racism, then don't start talking about a big coverup involving Muslim immigrants raping women. And if you don't like being accused of tinhatted conspiracy theorising, don't put forward bizarre world domination theories involving Soros, Saudi wahhabists and god knows who else. There's enough dodgy stuff going on in the world without needing to link it all together and prophecy the end of western civilization FFS.

And as for 'dont like what I have to say? Go put on a pussy hat' you stupid woman' please remember you are on a feminist board here. I do have other options but to bow down to your lordly views, thank God. Anyhow, i hope the tone of your recent responses to me has been duly noted by at least some of the women reading this thread. It feels aggressive and self-aggrandizing.

Guardianlions, thank you for your insightful and to me not at all tin-hatted analysis in that last, excellent post. Goodnight!