Tamsin sutherland

Woah InfamousT - the video I couldn't watch. We know that most rapes and attacks of women occur within homes, perpetrated by people known to us.

To make out it is a threat like and ill wind from outside completely lets all the bastards perpetrating it on a daily basis off the hook.

Male violence against women and girls is endemic.

...and of course, Sweden is just fine and dandy.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

Traffig, no worries, I took the question as such

@ frogsoup
You ask what I stand for? Like us all, I think, tolerance, peace and freedom. I will fight against ideas that I think work against that

Well, I'm with that.

Thank you for your reply to me up thread.
No hidden agenda in my question. I genuinely wanted to know your views... rather than you disappear from the thread... that's it .

Crikey I'm full of typos today - because my arthritis is playing up.

That's a barrel of laughs at the age of 53.

I've found all this really rather depressing. Who cold have known it would be so hard to stand up for women's rights... seems it's a highly selective game...

Of course - I'm just Nigel Farrage in drag, obviously. What a racist.

If there is one think I simply cannot stand - it's hypocrisy.

Go on - call me names. That'll really help, won't it?

If you think all of this is unconnected to trans rights, then you are best naive - at worst, you are one of these so-called 'progressive feminists' that are throwing ALL these women under a bus.

Well done.

Is there seriously anyone left in any doubt with what we are dealing with here?!

Sweet Jesus.

...even more fearmongering

www.rt.com/news/393238-germany-asylum-seekers-rape/

Yet more fearmongering...

www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-sharia-law-in-england-and-wales-independent-review

More fearmongering.

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/15922948.Disgraced_PC_Ihsan_Ali_who__targeted_vulnerable_women__jailed_for_two_years/?ref=twtrec

Yup, you are quite correct, it is fearmongering.

Has anyone ready Shiela Jeffreys Man's Dominion: The Rise of Religion and the Eclipse of Women's Rights?

I haven't got around to reading it and I wonder if it would be relevant to what we're talking about here.

I totally agree Guardian. I don't think we need look too deep actually for the causes of what's happening with transgenderism, and I see them far more in neoliberal ideologies of remaking the self than in Marxism. Foucault certainly isn't responsible, although he assuredly could shed some light on the discourses involved and how they decentre power.

Fearmongering.

www.breitbart.com/london/2018/02/06/revealed-britains-foreign-office-promotes-world-hijab-day-attempts-to-avoid-public-disclosure-of-staff-event/

Anyway - I see transgenderism as being about individualism.

All that regurgitated 'personal choice' narrative, is a solidarity-shredding divide and conquer tactic.

I don't believe it belongs in the left.

However, the left is piss easy to guilt-trip and confuse, and the intersectional analysis of structural oppression has been an open door with the engine running for transgenderists to hijack and start throwing their weight around- before you know it, people have to list all their oppressions before being allowed to speak.

All the Lily Madigan's etc couldn't give a shite about the working class, but the left is an easy win.

Who gets to decide, though? I bet Farage, and certainly many of his followers, would tell you that they genuinely fear hordes of immigrants turning up on our doorstep, or the setting up of an Islamic caliphate in Barnsley. The rest of us think this is ridiculous, and also stokes racism. Just because in this case here the intention may be honourable doesn't excuse the need to tread carefully and NOT be alarmist and provocative when it comes to discussing race and religion. If you say things like 'if you don't act, your daughters will be wearing burkas in 20 years', does it matter if you are a racist alt-righter or not? The practical consequence is the same: it's a dog-whistle, whether you intend it to be or not.

Alarmist I would give you, but fear-mongering I find a bit mischaracterising, as though there is a hidden agenda to cause panic (like the Brexit posters), where I see it as genuine 'fear-expressing'.

As for 'othering' - I am not sure where that is, maybe I missed it.

I agree with you frogsoup, but there's a lot of alarmist fear-mongering and othering about at the moment.

Guardian - I think mnhq have it right here, it's when people start using alarmist hyperbole and generalisation that things become problematic. A discussion about how certain currents in modern society are leading to a shutting down of debate, and the authoritarian undertones of a lot of left-wing discourse right now - that's one thing. But as soon as you start talking about some kind of Islamist takeover of the west within 20 years, that for me is crossing a line. It's a demagogic tactic familiar to the alt-righters, trump, farage etc, and it involves stoking fear of the other. As an analogy, it's fine to have a debate, for instance, about the possible impact on immigration of a Turkish accession to the EU. But post a picture of yourself superimposed on a photo of a mass of dark-skinned immigrants with a caption saying 'ready for the invasion?' or similar (or whatever that awful farage poster said), and that is very definitely Not Ok. There is rational debate, and then there is ridiculous fear-mongering. I know which side of the line i think this particular poster is sitting on in this respect, and from the apparent number of reports of this thread, I'm (luckily) not the only one.

x posted with T again - I'll read now

Tale

I mean - sorry

Which is why I find talking in terms such as 'your daughters will all be wearing burkas in 20 years' so offensive, because it is this same language that people going round ripping veils off women use.

But - but...

Women haven't always been forced to wear veils in Iran or Afghanistan and there were cultural/political contexts within which things massively took a downturn for Iranian and Afghan women. I don't receive what is being said as right-wing propaganda. Just food for thought as to whether a comparable cultural/political context is being fostered here.

I am very conscious of the fact that people consciously being PC about both Islam and Transgenderism is both harming women's rights and justifying poor attitudes towards and treatment of women.

We've got in a huge mess because of this and I would like to discuss the power structures, systems and practices and whether and how we need to forearm against a Handmaid's Tail dystopian future.

Discussion (between mainly female mumsnetters) doesn't lead to pulling scarves of women.

Male dominance and control does.