Tamsin sutherland

That's a shame, what's! I didn't see the posts that were deleted, and I can understand that some people found the intensity and scope of her posts alarming, but I was interested in her perspective.

I think patriarchy explains the link, yet I don't see it as an "end of!" moment.

Clearly there are misogynists who are funding and clearing the path for transgenderism since it is clearly not a grassroots movement. In fact transgenderists actually suppress grassroots feminists, LGB, academics, etc from playing a role.

That is not explained purely by 'Patriarchy end of!' otherwise feminism would never have had any wins.

T says she’s been banned. She tried to do a password reset but the confirmation email didn’t come through to her - is that a sign of anything?

Tell her to try again. I hope she isn't banned - while I wasn't on board with the entirety of her argument I could understand why she joined those dots. I thought she spoke sense in some areas and also has an important insider insight. No one is putting the boot in that I can see - although I don't think Frog deserved accusations - as I've seen her posting before, she's just one of us.

Hope to see T again even if under another name and more incognito.

It is perfectly possible to have a whole series of things that coincide to create the kind of conditions that lead to transgenderism without invoking some sort of intentional malignant conspiracy. I would say the thing that connects everything is simply patriarchy which as feminists we know is powerful, systemic by definition and works together to the subjugation of women as a sex class.

^^
This. The concept of patriarchy is plenty strong enough (and contains the recognition of complexity) to explain the morphing of MRAs intoTRAs.

@picklemepopcorn T says she’s been banned. She tried to do a password reset but the confirmation email didn’t come through to her - is that a sign of anything?

@WhatsGoingOnEh , can you find out if T has been blocked and locked out as one poster says?

Mostly a lurker on these threads and am very much gender critical myself. I also completely agree with frogsoup.

It is perfectly possible to have a whole series of things that coincide to create the kind of conditions that lead to transgenderism without invoking some sort of intentional malignant conspiracy. I would say the thing that connects everything is simply patriarchy which as feminists we know is powerful, systemic by definition and works together to the subjugation of women as a sex class. However that doesnt mean that every man is secretly signed up to some sort of global secret society to subject women or that this secret society has some sort of well throught through plan involving transkids and secret propaganda to a cunning endgame in 20 years time. Patriarchy is a vastly more plausible and powerful explanation that Soros, Islam and cultural Marxism somehow conspiring together to overthrow Western civilisation.

I think as women and feminists we are well aware of the power and influence of patriarchy. It is more than explanation enough.

At the same time I don't think 'tinfoil hat' is useful or accurate. There are plenty of people who believe all kinds of things others don't, from religion to anti vaxers to chemtrail conspiracies, climate change denies and alien invasions. They aren't mentally ill though.

I'm not a fan of mudslinging or flouncing and I also feel uncomfortable when anonymous posters are more direct and rude than they'd be in real life to someone who is open about who they are.

That will obviously put someone on the defensive (esp as T is a non-mumsnetter invited in to a thread called Tamsin Sutherland ) and make them feel they are on trial to justify every opinion they have. It won't bring out their best.

Someone upthread aptly said T fired a lot of volleys which is a bit frustrating because it doesn't fit with mn culture of discussion and fine-tooth combing sources/stats cited.

However I found it interesting and Ts somewhat confrontational "who wrote to their MP this morning?" did shift me to write even though I know my MP isn't on side.

I'd like T to return to mumsnet with a pseudonym, a cup of tea and be in a more laid back state to be bit more conversational and less preachy to become a voice in mumsnet's collective wisdom. There's a danger doing all that research & connecting by yourself - you can end up getting fooled in a way you won't with other (super shrewd mumsnetter) people warning you that you've disappeared down a rabbit hole.

Nobody is sticking the boot in

People disagreed. I disagreed. The users here don't have the power to "no platform" someone (and that's not what that means, anyway).

I'm sure there's a lot of interesting stuff in what T is saying, but the delivery style is really, really off putting - I don't think anyone ever changed anyone's mind by shouting "YOU ARE ALL SHEEPLE AND SHILLS AND ONLY I KNOW THE TRUTH".

FWIW, I didn't report T, I only report stuff once in a blue moon, but I'm guessing others felt differently.

He is banned, but the thread kept up, so y'all can put the boot in while he had no way to defend himself.

I don't see anyone sticking the boot in? Discussing things that have been said in the thread yes. Thats what happens on discussion threads, even if one poster on the thread gets banned. This thread was up before T even joined the site.

Also we don't know if T is actually banned or not. It may have been done, but since MN did not say this, we don't know so how on earth can you accuse us of sticking the boot in after she was banned if we know nothing of the ban?

Potentially relevant to some of the stuff discussed in this thread.

thephilosophicalsalon.com/the-cia-reads-french-theory-on-the-intellectual-labor-of-dismantling-the-cultural-left/

Pretty sure that whatever the CIA is doing MI5 and MI6 are doing too.

That's something at least, instant. I had a few younger friends who've gone full TRA and when it's friends and not family it's often easier to just cut ties. Who knows, they may figure this stuff out for themselves at some point and we can reconnect then, but right now spending time with them would mean spending time around a whole lot of TRAs and I don't trust some of their friends not to escalate to physical violence if thwarted.

I think Joe's a bit peckish.

Good grief.

hipster I not sure of one of them but mine did yes, and physics.

I am not as well educated, so I find the constant throwing of stats, research and scientific links difficult to contradict. I don't go down that rabbit hole, I stick to my story, and our families stories. That's enough at the moment to at least make them consider the other side.

You’d think a Biology A Level would’ve nipped that in the bud. Please tell me they didn’t do Biology A Level...

Yes it is. We've reached a compromise because we had to. This is literally the only place I can talk about it tbh and I name change about 3 times a week.

There have been positives as well. We send links back and forth all the time - neither of us have stopped talking. They don't call me cis and I use preferred pronouns with trans people I interact with in person and online. That's about as far as I am prepared to compromise and I've made that very clear.

" ... one thought was that this paves the way for trans race and other such ideas and when you take away people's identities like that and make them a free for all you make it impossible for the oppressed to organise as a group and protest against their treatment ..."

That occurred to me as well, MadamM. Force them together, mix them up not only ethnically but also trans, and you have a population much easier to deal with. Countries without borders, countries renamed, a mix of various peoples forced together with ill-defined genders ..... the new, easier to govern proletariat.

Must be bang your head against the wall frustrating to hear this stuff from your kids.

It's all a bit hitler youth. I can't say fuck all either because you know, fucking maternal instinct

LOL! "Biology don't real, and that's why we study neuroscience!"

instant, STEM students at what stage of education and which science(s), if any?

Degree level Psychology.

If we're making random demands on the mumsnet staff then can we have a troll smiley/emoticon please? Like the biscuit but a bit more specific.

(Please note that I am not in fact making demands and this is a joke, though if such a thing existed I'm sure it would get some use.)

Really. Two bastarding ‘l’s.