Tamsin sutherland

(Apols to in-between posters above)

Another thing Datun is you saying I think the ultimate goal after replacing women is complete control of them.

And to me it relates to misogynist viewing a woman as the 'goose that lay the golden eggs'.

There is a kind of frantic, violent misogyny of wanting to tear a woman apart and turn her inside out to get to the 'golden egg' of 'sex' and 'womanhood' she keeps inside her - violent acts which either maim or kill her. Its the porn, the rape, persuading young lesbians to get hysterectomies, etc.

On the other hands there's the cool-headed misogyny you talk about of wanting to 'control' women, to own us and ritualise the use of our bodies for 'access to sex' and 'breeding'.

Unhinged loon. Nowt to do with me. Quite the entry on Kiwifarms, eh?

Wow it really is, some eye opening information. Lily Madigan's entry seems to have Lily's number too.

@infamousT

Welcome to MumsNet

I found my self nodding along to your views in the article and have found your posts in here really insightful (and scary if I'm honest).

Like yourself and many posters here, I've been vilified and shut down on Twitter and other social media for expressing views in opposition to the TRA narrative.

I find it extremely frustrating that the tactic of "declaration" and "no debate" seems to have gained so much ground, especially in the younger generation.

How have we lost the ability to think critically? How have we allowed the situation to develop where logical debate is stifled under a banner of "phobia"?

What next? If I don't agree with switching to a plant based diet I am a Veganphobe? Do I get blocked on Twitter and added to hate lists?

The success of the TRA agenda leaves me cold because I can see their tactics being used by other causes to similar effect to the point where we lose our freedom to have an opinion on anything.

Musings over - it's good to have you here 👍

i mean i have had to.put up with 30 years of being asked if i am a mrs / miss /ms!!

I always put Ms. But today I had to fill in a form where the only options were Mrs and Miss. It didn't feel good.

Ive really struggled with this.

On one hand the last thing I want to do is make life more painful or harder for any trans person. Ive had struggles with my own sexuality, and I empathise. On the other...watching poor Rose Mcgowan be attacked by a pedophile male, claiming to be female just about blew my mind.
The cotton ceiling thing, do trans people with dicks really expect lesbians to have penis in vagina sex with them? Honestly? Im bewildered.

Thanks T for helping me clarify my thoughts on the subject. It is a war on women, and though im an old biddy now, my dd will be living in this brave new world and im scared for her.

I agree Datun and this in particular stuck out:

I should imagine it's far more to do with the sexual gatekeeping they think women are intent on.

My friend and I chatted about this - men describing us as 'gate-keepers of sex' as though we are St Peter or some winged, sword-swinging cherubim judging those who may or may not enter the 'realm of sex'..

In actual fact, we simply have preferences about how, when and with whom we wish to share physical intimacy with our bodies. But even calmly explaining this reality to them pisses them off so much they act like red-faced screaming babies.

Where do they get this persistent idea of sex as a reified 'thing' - disconnected from the physical body of the person, with whom they believe they 'access it' through?

The resentment and fury this myth causes men to have about women is why their porn is so violent, so violating and cruel, why they defend rape culture - it is at the root of so much misogyny.

And the terminology of 'gate-keepers of womanhood' by transactivists is pretty much identical. 'Womanhood' is a realm, women will only let the worthy enter. St Peter and the Cherubim...
When in reality 'womanhood' is just a general term for all things woman related.

They won't let this myth go and it really is chilling.

I've not really been out for a year now, as I don't want to use the Ladies facilities

See the terrifying thing about this statement is that it so easily could be all of us here on mn soon. I have already decided that if the time comes that self id becomes a thing, I will rarely go out. I can't imagine going to the cinema/pool/gym (I don't go to a gym anyway but you know) pub/library/cafe/shopping etc and finding a man in the toilets or changing room.
So either I go out less and for shorter periods or find a way of not requiring a changing room or toilet.
If I a white woman who in the scheme of things is quite far up the food chain have to change my entire life around for self id, how can other women even leave the house.
I post links on my Facebook, it's a drought of replies and no questions have yet been raised, but I am trying.
Quite angry at the way this whole thing is going but also quite scared that we women won't win this war, and if we do, the money and power behind this will start yet another war on us.

GuardianLions

I agree with that. I think they hate women, for a variety of reasons.

It's not specific to the female genitalia that they can't have.

I should imagine it's far more to do with the sexual gatekeeping they think women are intent on.

And the resentment manifests as wanting to strip women of their autonomy and their rights.

The way to do that is to blur the biological distinctions, so that men can be the same as women, and then usurp them.

It's very chilling to me, because I think the ultimate goal after replacing women is complete control of them.

a load of MRAs in lipstick.

An old friend of mine came to visit the other day and she knows nothing about this (her career is all-consuming, caring and she hasn't got anything left in her to keep up with current affairs).

We were discussing the current generation of gender-bending males and how we actually find them intimidating when we bump into them in public.

Its not like the 'New Romantics' or something where you felt men were being a bit dandy-like and glamorous. These current men with beard/lipstick/eyeshadow/dress combo have a threatening presence and we found it hard to put our finger on what it is.

My friend said it is the fact that they are big males, with broad shoulders, big hands, and a huge sense of entitlement.

But I detect some deep misogyny in it. The way they subtly relate to women in public spaces you can sense a "come and have a go if you think your hard enough" confrontation about it. They are almost daring you or goading you to say "piss off out of appropriating womanhood you prick" - just so that they can self righteously knock you out in front of your kids. They use their wearing of women's clothes as a form of public male domination.

She's the first person I have spoken about that with.

I've not really been out for a year now, as I don't want to use the Ladies facilities

The thing is, T, before all this madness, people like you were welcome in the ladies loos.

I hate it that this honour system has been demolished because of insane demands by a load of MRAs in lipstick.

InfamousT you fit in so well here!

So nice to have an opportunity to discuss the meta-issues (thanks to MN) when it currently seems we are being sprayed with trans bullets - putting me in reactive mode (eg-Rose McGowan, Andi Dier & the silencing of women victims, Karen Ingala-Smith, India Willoughby & the terrorising of women seeking refuge from violence).

What a welcome relief.

Your intellectual independence and turns of phrase are appreciated. 'Rainbow Reich' - how apt.

I hope you'll stick around.

I'm afraid that if you REALLY want to put an end to this, women everywhere are going to have to abandon Intersectional 3rd Wave Feminism. And quick. Just put it down and back away, then stand your ground.

And yes, that is not my feminism. I'm an older woman and have always been a radical feminist. I find intersectionality in modern feminism quite confusing. My feminism centres women be they black, Asian, Islamic, trans men, lesbian, bi or straight - it just centres women - biological women. I can sympathise with , campaign for and support other causes but my feminism is about women only.

@infamousT have you considered writing a book? Apologies if you already have!

Your posts really resonate with me. Women have never had it so good and the foundation is so shaky. It takes a justice system, education, healthcare , child care system to allow us any kind of life... easily taken down and easily threatened... and it's only been good for around 100 years (give or take) as opposed to the patriachy which has a head start of a few millennia.

InfamousT thanks for weighing in. I'm horrified and yet not surprised at the conclusions you've drawn with regards to the end game here. I've seen several similar conclusions from different sources (Jordan Peterson springs to mind), and am trying to catch up with these terms.

I think it's too easy to feel overwhelmed or scared. I want to do something. I've been inoculating my DC against this dogma for starters, although I would rather protect them from it. But if I stay silent I am complicit. I'm not on social media.

@SleepFreeZone that's exactly it. Never mind all the penis drawings in the toilets - they are left out and reminded how they are not women (except transwomen are women) so it hurts their feelings.

Just posting quickly as I have to do some work and this issue has been wiping me out to be honest (and I know you all know how I feel because you feel the pain, frustration, white hot rage and sadness too). I'm posting to say thanks to InfamousT for coming on and for her compelling contributions. We don't have to agree on everything but I find every contribution to this issue important and it is particularly gratifying to read eloquent thoughts of someone who has seen the inside of this insidious cult of identity.

On the subject of media and political kowtowing to the trans Orwellian newsspeak I was listening to a podcast on Women's Liberation News (recommended by someone here on the podcast thread) and edition 16: Money Behind the Transgender Movement had a midwife on who talked about the wealthy men behind this (some may surprise, others not so much) and I wonder how much the power of these influential wealthy men is behind the fear in the media. I'd advise everyone to have a listen. As InfamousT does here, it suggests a more sinister reason behind the whole movement and why it has so much money and influence.

iamawoman

This is classic postmodernist Neomarxist shaming reminiscent of the Maoist 'struggle sessions'.

It's a power grab, pure and simple, nothing more. The very worst kind of politicking prompted by the very worst kind of politics.

#ItsOkToBeTransphobic

I'm afraid that if you REALLY want to put an end to this, women everywhere are going to have to abandon Intersectional 3rd Wave Feminism. And quick. Just put it down and back away, then stand your ground.

I've not really been out for a year now, as I don't want to use the Ladies facilities - and I certainly don't want to use the Gents - I'd be happy with a third gender neutral option.

Sadly, you cannot subscribe to so-called 'intersectionality' and oppose this at one in the same time.

One does not cherry-pick Marxist ideology - you are either idologically pure - or you eventually go to the Gulag - if you are lucky. If not you end up with a bullet in the back of the head and a mass grave.

History should already have taught us ALL this lesson.

The Universities have become cesspits of postmodern thought - or brainwashing, as I prefer to call it.

Womankind in the Western world have simply never, EVER had it so good in the entire history of Humankind. If allowed to continue at this unbridled pace, we shall ALL find ourselves back in the Dark Ages before too long.

Now that's something to wave your rainbow flag and feel 'pride' in, eh?

I know it's a bitter pill - one I swallowed 5 years ago. This whole thing is societal cancer - and the only cure available is extremely harsh, in an ideological sense. I implore people to think both long and extremely hard about it all - educate yourselves about the roots of postmodernism, keep your children close, and don't allow them to become infected by this virulent mind-virus.

Sorry.

Can someone explain why decorating a cupcake with a vulva is violence against transwomen? I genuinely couldn’t fathom it. Are they saying that because they have a penis women aren’t allowed to celebrate a vulva? Something like that? 🤔

And did you see the link at the bottom - (RELATED: UCLA Paper Apologizes For Saying Women Menstruate)!! UCLA

Just waving hello and place marking! Long time lurker, loads of mountaineering experience on Peak Trans and RTFT avidly.

Who knew Country squire could be so intertesting! I thought it would be all farming and stuff...

Indeed OnTheList this spurious notion of 'the cotton ceiling' is exactly the kind of rhetoric that I can see leading to corrective rape for the crime of having a 'transphobic genital fetish' if allowed to run it's course.

I recently read a piece by one of these lunatics in which the writer fantasised about severing the hand of 'TERFS' and ripping their tongues out to use as sex toys.

No shit.

It's utterly unhinged lunacy. Depraved and degenerate. It all goes on behind metaphorical closed doors on obscure Tunmblr forums and Discord servers. Nefarious indeed.

Hence why she then became incredibly dramatic and bitter. It’s a really shitty feeling to get no attention whatsoever when that’s all you want. I was a chubby, plain teenager and clearly remember all my friends getting chatted up and being totally ignored by the cool boys. Luckily I eventually became quite attractive so at least I feel as though I had some time in the warmth of the sun 😜