When did 'White, Middle Class Women' become the scum of the earth

Laura Bates was great on Channel 4 news tonight. She reiterated that the women at high risk of harassment are those on zero hour contracts especially those in companies with no HR department.

The abuse technique they are using is called DARVO.
Deny
Accuse
Reverse Victim and Offender

This is a well-argued summary of the main issues (a little out of date now but still very topical)

This might be an enjoyable read for anyone feeling annoyed with Owen Jones

Well now he is directing me to a Tweet from Owen Jones referencing an article written by “Cisgender Feminists in Ireland rebutting the bigotry of anti-trans campaigners” ffs.

I admit I ended up skim reading the entire article as it was making me really angry but seriously, wtf..the writers are telling the We Need To Talk organisers (who plan to tour Ireland) that if they oppose the right of trans women to self declare then they are anti-feminist, ignorant colonisers etc and go on to conflate women’s struggle for e.g. the right to abortion with the trans struggle.

This is what infuriates me - my friend has told me that the ‘horrific discrimination’ I am helping to perpetuate against trans women is EXACTLY the same as aggression and discrimination women and people of colour suffer I don’t want trans women to suffer ANY kind of discrimination at all. I fully support their right to their own safe spaces, changing rooms in public spaces etc. But I don’t want a man who has self declared he is a woman to share a changing room with my daughter or end up examining a traumatised woman in a medical situation who has specifically said she only wants to be treated by or see a biological woman!!

Argggghh...this post is rambling now and i wish I could direct my ‘friend’ (not sure our friendship will survive this!) towards some of the eloquent posts in this board.

Take a break Assigned. You've earned one. and for you too.

I “of all people” should be aware of the evils of discrimination

Black women in particular should be centring white males, because discrimination?

Fucks sake Eastie77 I'm speechless just hearing that. and to you.

There is a subset of men who identify as women. They had success taking over the LGBT organizations but have now run into a bit of trouble in their efforts to convert all Gays and Lesbians to Trans or expel them from the organizations. This may sound familiar.
The most recent effort is to use black women as an analogy for the way trans identified males are a subset of category woman. Trans women are no more women than hot dogs are dogs.
Trans identified males are a subset of males and the rest of the males need to bloody well step up and rein in these abuses of women and stop demanding that we submit to these trans identified males dominance displays in women's safe spaces.

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

A timely thread for me to come across. I’m a Black woman. Yesterday a White gay friend angrily berated me for arguing that trans women are men by definition. Apparently I “of all people” should be aware of the evils of discrimination and he cannot believe I am adhering to transphobic views and denying trans women their “rightful” identities.

He then went on to tell me that I also need to be aware of my privilege when I travel as I have visited countries where gay men and women are persecuted because of their sexuality.

I’m glad he educated me. I had no idea that over the years whilst travelling when I have been sexually harassed, racially abused on occasion, barred by door staff from going into a bar with White colleagues because “we already have enough black people in there”( that was a particular little gem in Germany) that I was in such a privileged position.

Ages ago on the Guilty Feminist podcast they had the woman who campaigns against FGM on. I can’t remember her name but she is awesome and she runs the Dahlia Project.

She said when it comes to different areas of feminism she understands that we all have different battles to fight, but though a certain fight may not be her battle she will stand by those fighting it.

I think of feminism like that. I can’t speak for black women because I’m not black but I will stand by them and I will fight with them.

I totally agree that it’s basically a way of shutting women up. It’s a more insidious version of the whole ‘but what about the women in Saudi Arabi’ shit that gets trotted out.

Thus is what I find difficult about identity politics - it seems to ignore class and economic power.

Yes. And this is what tells you most SJW guff isn't intersectional at all. Because it ignores a vital axis of privilege in class.

Chiwetel Ejiofor, for example, may be disadvantaged against his fellow privately educated thespians such as Benedict Cumberbatch and Tom Hiddleston because he is black. But there is no power on earth that can convince me that a working class boy from a sink estate is privileged over Ejiofor because he is white.

And it's another reason why middle class, white, socialised male TIMs fresh from their Russell Group university safe spaces are NOT the most oppressed demographic ever.

www.katebelgrave.com/2018/02/intentionally-homeless-with-kids-council-will-house-the-kids-but-not-you-ie-youll-be-separated-from-them-the-hell-with-this/

Tinycitrus - agreed. And this is what intersectionality was supposed to address (I thought). Not create the Oppression Olympics

Thus is what I find difficult about identity politics - it seems to ignore class and economic power.

There are plenty of young white working class men and women growing up in areas of multiple deprivation. They have nothing. There is nothing for them.

Identity politics doesn’t address this. It just seems to want to tell these people that they are privileged.

im NOT having a go at feminists btw sorry if thats the way it comes across.

I dread to think bravo.

I think the reason a lot of working class women dont feel engaged in feminism may be because they dont feel included. When people are discussing the gender pay gap, the woman stacking shelves in the supermarket may not feel that it relates to her because she wont get more than minimum wage anyway.

She may think "well the women at the BBC are getting thousands more than i am so what are they complaining about"

bravobravo Mon 05-Feb-18 00:28:24
"How about the many white working class women/WOC who are not particularly 'radical' on the feminist front but still have the same fears and objections to penises in their private space? What slurs are going to be thrown at them by the posh self entitled white blokes"

YY Dick To reiterate though i may not be concerned for my own safety re things like changing rooms but i do not want or like the idea of young teenage girls going into the changing rooms at TopShop and being confronted with a Muscato type.

YY - to all the above observations.

Here's where I'm at today - I and many other "cis white middle class women" are members of collectives in our community that, rather sitting on Twitter all day, flashing our "woke" credentials are out and about, using our resources and privilege to actively try and help those that don't have our advantages.

It is us who are organising soup kitchens, food collections, clothing collections, sanitary products etc for the homeless and refugees. It is us who are raising money for underfunded schools, or for individuals in need. We are making up hampers and wrapping donated presents and delivering them to those that would have no Christmas otherwise. We advocate for trafficked and prostituted women in our communities. We are volunteering to take elderly people to their medical appointments/do their shopping/run groups. We get out and clean our local communities and on and on and on.

Yes other demographics do all that as well, just as much. "White cis women" are not intrinsically the most compassionate of all the compassionate people on the planet but nor are we, collectively spoilt, selfish princesses that wallow and indulge in the privilege that was handed to us by the accident of our birth.

I will not be shamed for something I had no control in creating (the circumstances of my existence) especially when I have used those circumstances in as many ways as I can, to try and redress the inequalities that are painfully apparent.

But here's the thing, whilst the structures that wage class warfare on the population still exist, no amount of caring or volunteering is going to make a blind bit of difference. It is pissing in the wind. Those with the structural power (and that is never women, of any skin colour or socio-economic background) need to give up their lust for dominance and superiority.

So, to all the superwoke identifarions, in the words of Rose McGowan "I know what I have done for the world and you should be fucking grateful - step the fuck back!".

If you're a white woman who tells black women that there is no room to talk about racism in feminist discourse then yes - you deserve to get called a white feminist as a pejorative and you should probably reflect on that.

If a transactivist or transactivist ally calls you a white feminist, just tell them to fuck off. It's bullshit. They're just trying to make you centre penis. As usual.

YY. Exactly this.

Reframing of the narrative is happening with a lot of subjects

Yes I agree there's a class war going on which is being waged with many of the same bullying, gaslighting, DARVOing tactics as this war on women.

name changer Im a childfree by choice white working class feminist social housing tenant

People get very uncomfortable when you dont fit the stereotype.

As a woman and a tenant the vitriol ive seen whipped up against tenants in recent years has been appalling. While i can understand the concern over trans issues its so far away from me that its not something that i see as a threat to my own safety.

Whereas the issues tenants are facing are much closer to home

Reframing of the narrative is happening with a lot of subjects.

@bravobravo they'll be called ignorant transphobic bigots obviously.

How about the many white working class women/WOC who are not particularly 'radical' on the feminist front but still have the same fears and objections to penises in their private space? What slurs are going to be thrown at them by the posh self entitled white blokes?