Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

Spot on NaturalWoman

And obviously, the MRA/TRAs, who are alsoTIMs, have no desire to 'pass'. They want women to know that they are really men because that's not about acceptance, that's about fear and intimidation.

I don't watch CBB, or BB generally, and have absolutely no idea who this India person is.

But if I were to give one piece of advice to TIMs who want to be accepted, seen, regarded, treated as women (although they don't really want to be treated like women, surely!) it would be this.

Stop behaving like men.

Stop shouting at women.
Stop intimidating women.
Stop harrassing women.
Stop bullying women.
Stop silencing women through fear.
Stop abusing women.

Read and listen to what we say about what we don't like about men.
Understand why we don't want men, any men, in our safe, private spaces.
Understand the threat that biological men can pose to women.
Understand that we don't know which of these men will pose this threat and which will not.
Understand that we assume that men who do shout, harrass, bully, scream at us are the ones who wish to cause us harm. Because shouting, harrassing, bullying and screaming at us is causing us harm.

Being a woman is not:

Wearing make up
Wearing dresses
Presenting a highly sexualised feminine image for the pleasure of men
Having fabulous hair
The sway of your hips as you walk
Being viewed approvingly/acceptingly by men
Being 'fluffy'
Owning a handbag dog with a diamante collar
Having a shoe collection to rival Imelda Marcos'
About pouting selfies

Being a woman is also not about being nice to absolutely everyone, even when you are suspicious of their intentions and motivations.

'Looking like' a woman isn't enough. If you want us to believe, or at least respect you enough as a person to pretend, that you are also women, then you need to behave less like men.

That's exactly what Nixon was after when suing Vancouver Rape Relief www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/learn/resources/vancouver-rape-relief-society-v-nixon-2005-bcca-601-summary-decision

If this happens then surely the next step for self declared trans women is to demand assess to positions where they can counsel young girls who have been victims of trauma and abuse.

According to their ‘logic’ it would be discriminatory to not allow them to?

I think some of the direction current trans ideology has taken is precisely because the majority don't pass, GRC or not, and they know it. So they have to find ways to force people to validate them. I imagine many non passing TIMs harbour a lot of resentment for those few that blend in more easily.

YY, that's exactly it.

'I am actually laughing out loud at this because I can't imagine many scenarios more ludicrous than women relying on the likes of these two to be the voice of reason in protecting our rights!!'

I know!!! The world had officially gone mad. Never EVER thought those two would be the voices of sanity

Assigned, my thoughts exactly. Visions of India screaming at terrified, traumatised women that 'I AM A REAL WOMAN'. Coz it's all about India, you see

In that tweet thread they're also really angry that the Gilligan story was on the front page. Because women's concerns are insignificant, right?

Yes a GRC means very little in terms of refuges if a TIM looks like Danielle Muscato.

Coming at this from a trans perspective for a minute this is where the idea that allowing anyone to legally become the opposite sex falls down. It's created a division between those that reasonably pass and those that don't. I think some of the direction current trans ideology has taken is precisely because the majority don't pass, GRC or not, and they know it. So they have to find ways to force people to validate them. I imagine many non passing TIMs harbour a lot of resentment for those few that blend in more easily.

Yes that would be the same India Willoughby backing off shouting 'I am a REAL woman' repeatedly at wide eyed, startled women

twitter.com/lisasevern/status/960322924141072384?s=17

As you can see transactivists know full well that the presence of men in refuges traumatises abused women. They just think exceptions should be made for them.

Yeah, the GRC is a red herring in this case. Jane Fae could probably get a GRA easily, would you be OK with him being the person welcoming you to a refuge? From the perspective of the women using the service the key issue is male/female, not has/does not have piece of paper, and expecting them to be OK with male people who have made the effort to get a GRC imposes an unfair emotional burden on them at a time when they're already in crisis.

Most = MIT

Doctor, but the GRC doesn't guarantee that the MOST passes, so can still cause women to feel unsafe. But more importantly, the GRA isn't a certificate of niceness. It does not take away the risk of assault.

Oh my life, Piers Morgan AND Nick Ferrari!

I am actually laughing out loud at this because I can't imagine many scenarios more ludicrous than women relying on the likes of these two to be the voice of reason in protecting our rights!!

For the first time in my life, I really have a sense of understanding what "falling down the rabbit hole" feels like. The whole thing is topsy turvy.

BigDeskBob you can't know if someone has fully transitioned obviously if self ID is allowed. I just meant that the current situation is that those who have fully transitioned and have a female birth cert can already work there (I think) and that wouldn't bother me. It's the self ID side that worries me. L

'I tell you, it's a funny old world when Piers Morgan is an unlikely women's ally!'

It sure is! You can add Nick Ferrari to that strange list too. Just heard a wonderful conversation on his show between Dr Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women and a trans activist called 'Amy'. Dr Williams was fab - absolutely adamant that biological males have no place in women's refuges, that the feelings of TIMs do not trump the feelings of women, that this is just biological reality rather than bigotry, and says that she was well aware she will be labelled a transphobe for saying all this. Ferrari backed her completely. I don't often feel cheered by listening to Nick Ferrari's show but today is an exception!

"Tbh if someone like India who has fully transitioned had turned up I would not have had an issue. "

How would anyone know who has 'fully transitioned'?

Also, a GRC doesn't guarantee someone passes, or is a nice person.

I think that this policy would not only encourage MIT who want to cause distress to women and for validation, but also MIT who feel they are helping, but are blissfully unaware of the upset they are causing. And that's when everyone gets hurt, many MIT don't realise they really don't pass and women are tolerating them, and don't believe that they are women.

I've written to Women's aid outlining what how unethical it is to use rape victims as lab rats in this male-led social experiment.

If talking to a rape counsellor means possibly talking to a man who wants you to validate his genderfeels, then women will just stop talking to rape counsellors. Which suits a number of different groups of men, including the AGPs and MRA running the trans movement, nicely.

There's a reason Andi Dier wants Rose McGowan to shut up, and it's not just because of what she said on Ru Paul's show.

Doctor the danger is that women will just stop availing themselves of these services if they can be provided by men as a means of validating those men.

I tell you, it's a funny old world when Piers Morgan is an unlikely women's ally!

As someone who has been in a situation of receiving help from WA I'm horrified.
Tbh if someone like India who has fully transitioned had turned up I would not have had an issue. I have friends in the trans community trying to get on with their life quietly.
But for people who self ID to turn up that would have terrified me. More so from the point of view of worrying someone who was not trans self Identifying to get access to vulnerable women. I don't think it's that far fetched to believe it could happen. It already has in Canada.

I also worry about the kind of people who would apply for the job to prove a point rather than wanting to help or the activists who would apply and then kick up a huge fuss about discrimination till they brought these facilities to their knees if they were told they weren't the most qualified for the job.

We were talking about it with teen dd this morning and she said by the time she was an adult there would be truly mixed sex wards because someone will kick up an almighty fuss like the Top Shop changing room issue and everyone would fold to them.

IW insisted that any trans woman seeing they were causing distress would 'back off'

Not if their intention is to cause distress...

But totally agree. Why does a man have to be given the opportunity to cause an already vulnerable Woman such distress. The self centredness is mind boggling.

IW insisted that any trans woman seeing they were causing distress would 'back off'

What, like India did when the female housemates on CBB were obviously alarmed and uncomfortable with India's behavior?

I suppose that being recognised and accepted as A Woman for the purposes of accessing a Women's rape crisis centre as a counsellor must be the greatest validation for these men - knowing how unwelcome a man would be to these Women.

This is all about the men wanting to work in them to reassure themselves that they are Women, or that they have forced others to treat them as Women, and not at all to do with compassion or a desire to support the Women victims.