Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

busyboysmum thank you, I have signed. Might be worth starting a new thread just for this petition.

I wonder how many of the 138 women who were murdered last year were women who didn’t want to leave their sons behind.

Transactivists know nothing of the lives of women.

I've never seen the inside of a rape crisis centre or women's aid shelter. I've never had to.

It doesn't stop me from knowing all about them. And not because I'm a feminist, either.

I wouldn't have had to read a damn thing about it, to have that knowledge.

This is absolute insanity!

So many refuges reject boys 13 or over due to the triggering effect they may have on residents but male bodied people may now be allowed to work in one?

It makes a mockery of every woman who has had to make the agonising decision to leave one child behind in order to protect the others.

I wonder how many of the 138 women who were murdered last year were women who didn’t want to leave their sons behind. If woman’s aid goes ahead with this they are pissing on those women’s graves.

Yes I think there are various options. I often misspell mine as it's very recognisable.

Is it possible to sign that petition without your name being published?

Also a petition here to sign:

www.citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/156132-keep-men-out-womens-shelters?tc=tw&tcid=45190691

Self defined makes? = males

The thing about self-defined makes (aka females) is that they are categorically not a threat to men. They are not the ones committing 98% of all sexual crimes or 80% of all violent crimes. It's males doing this, hence the need for female-only spaces. The crime rates among Transpeople are the same rates as their biological sex, not their identity.

A transman in a male space is as vulnerable as a female, ie. Weaker, smaller than males and the one who will fall pregnant and really needs the same protections as females.

I don't think male refuges are male only either (unless I'm wrong) I would have thought they employ females? So male or female, or in the middle, in a male environment wouldn't make too much difference if males and females are already there.

Stupid question , how does it stand with women who define themselves as men, getting a job with male abuse services?
It is known that man can be abused by their girlfriends and wives. I know it's not widely heard about but unfortunately does happen.
Does this boil down to the fact they are penisless? If that's a word. And the world is meant to bow down to men?

Also, there is a talk in Edinburgh on 14th Feb

www.eventbrite.co.uk/d/united-kingdom--glasgow/womans-place-edinburgh/?q=womans+place+edinburgh&mode=search

Please also complete the Scottish Government consultation - details on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3161638-To-call-to-all-You-have-less-than-a-month-Please-act-now-to-protect-womens-rights?watched=1&msgid=75436470#75436470

Anyone who is wondering what to do about this entire issue, here it is.

A Woman's Place UK has organised a London meeting. The more people who go, the more it will be covered in the press.

27th of February, 7pm. £5.98.

Venue to be announced.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160410-Womans-Place-UK-meeting-in-London-27-Feb

Don't get me wrong there should be support for men but there are a shit load of footballers, business men etc who could dig up some pocket change.

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

Broken statistics by MRA and media are use to say that domestic abuse is the same level between men and women to create a straw man about refuges getting preferential government support, and now can be used in 'don't feminists want equality' type rubbish.

So sorry if this has already been posted, but just wanted to draw attention to Julia Hartley Brewer's interview with IW & KIS: soundcloud.com/mossmiss-1/karen-ingala-smith-with-india-willoughby-on-talk-radio-with-julia-hartley-brewer

Brilliant call from a listener at the end - convinced she must be a MNer (bet JHB is too)!

When I first read about this, I must admit, I cried a little.

I’m so upset. I had to remove myself from reading this thread. It’s been a few days and I’m less murderous but I’m so dissapointed.

I feel so sad about it.

Woman’s aid, if you’re reading this, we need you. Please don’t do this to us.

That’s appalling Sergio. And I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences.

I received the same stock reply also. My email went into some detail about my abusive ex, what he did and how after I left him I couldn't even look my own father and brother in law in the eye because I literally couldn't cope being around men. I told them if a man had been the one to welcome me to that refuge I'd have walked away - and considering I was pregnant, and had a 3 year old daughter with me I dread to think where I would have gone. It took alot to write to them, it's been 7 years and day to day I try not to think about that time. It feels like no-one even read my email, it was just a standard response. It feels like another slap in the face to be honest.

Does Broken Rainbow (a DV service for LGBT) still exist?

Maybe they could provide helpful stats on was is missing from their service provision and what groups are most in need.

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

According to refuge.org.uk there are outreach and advocacy services aimed at men but it makes no mention of actual refuges. I suspect there isn't a need great enough (number wise) to be able to run them and I've never once heard or seen any man campaign to get some started.

The need for Women's refuges is because of the physical power disparity in heterosexual relationships but also the economic disparity plays a big part too. It's easier for most men to leave a relationship financially.

I don't know much about gay male domestic violence but if I had to guess I would say it's probably a bigger issue than is actually talked openly about. However the big LGBT orgs do have the funds to put this front and centre if they really wanted to. It's not okay to just co-opt women's services.

Again in reality I imagine most gay men in this situation have money that enables them to leave a little easier and are unlikely to have dependant children. This may change a bit in future years now we have marriage equality and more gay couples have families.

Maybe I am missing something but WA is predominantly for women who have been in an abusive relationship with their male husbands or male partners. The people who run WA are female and to access the accommodation it is female only (young male children are the exception)

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

If he has a penis and wears a dress that would make him a transvestite.

I got the same response as above from our local WA.

A year ago this sentence would have reassured me:

"You can rest assured we will safeguard women only spaces and ensure that women that access refuge/safe accommodation are treated with the upmost respect and care."

Now? I'm suspicious that "women only spaces" means spaces that are open to women and men.

I finally watched that clip of This Morning where Piers Morgan and India Willoughby argued about whether men should be allowed into refuges, while the woman who has experience and expertise in these matters, Karen Ingala Smith, barely had a chance to say anything. Oh, and India told us how sorry he was for poor old men for being the ones who go round doing the beating and the raping.

I got the same reply
Along the lines of "while the government are reviewing the GRA we and other organisations are taking the opportunity to review our internal policies. We will talk to member organisations and survivors as part of the process...." very stock reply.
At least they are acknowledging our voices.

I had a reply to my email basically saying they understand my concerns, they're reviewing internal policies and will talk to survivors are part of process, they do set the policies of organisation that run direct services for survivors and they'll take comments on board. Hmm