M&S changing room policy

I will not use mixed sex changing rooms because of the very real danger of being photographed or filmed.

Google 'women filmed in changing rooms' if you want to see news story after news story of men being caught, charged and prosecuted for this - and then remember the ones who boast because they get away with it.

There are sites on the net where men swap ideas for the best rooms where naked women are accessible and where they also boast about and swap photos and videos.

Some explanation is here:

womanmeanssomething.com/violencedatabase/

I thought one of the main problems with men having access to our changing rooms was the opportunity to hide a camera in there, then come back for it a few hours later completely unchallenged. An example of this was in our local paper a couple of years ago (nothing to do with trans, he was just an average bloke, but it makes life easier for his type).

@Dilligaf81You do know a trans women is more likely to be attacked than attack someone (1) and if someone is pretending to be trans to get access then they are the issue (2) and would try anyway tm so why attack trans people?

(1) Independent verifiable source for this please.
(2) Welcome to the whole point of the discussions.

Wtfdoipick yes, a coat. So why not try it on on the shop floor? There's full length mirrors there for that reason.

It's just frustration, LostSight, having to explain the same issues over and over again.

The thing about comparing Norway to the UK is that those are totally different cultures. How many British women would be comfortable stripping off and showering casually with other women? I know a lot of Scandinavian people are, but most Brits aren't. My best friend is Japanese and she's totally casual about same sex nudity, whereas I avoid it when possible (though obviously it's not an issue in the same way it would be if you added men into the mix). In spaces where there are people from lots of different cultures defaulting to a standard that avoids discomfort for the majority makes sense, with provisions in place for those who're more conservative than the majority.

I thought that too about the coat, AngryKittens. Made me wonder if it was the waiting in the women’s queue and using their area that was the main attraction.

I've never tried on a coat in a changing room unless I was already going in there to try on other stuff. Just put it on and find the nearest mirror, no waiting in line needed.

@Scrumplstiltskin

The women’s changing rooms in Norwegian swimming pools generally do not have cubicles at all. The women get changed and shower naked. It’s very different from the changing rooms in shops.

And I’m sorry AngryKittens if I offended you with my question. I have been quietly reading many of the threads here for a while and I’m sorry if I made you feel like a broken record.

There was a bloke directly behind me in the queue for the M&S lingerie changing room at Xmas. I was waiting to try on bras. He was wanting to be in there to try on a coat. He was wearing silver high heels and a full face of make up, but was also sporting designer stubble

How many woman use changing rooms to try on coats, no one I know does so was that about trying something on or being in women's spaces?

If companies are prepared to invest the money in secure lockable changing rooms with doors and floor to ceiling walls, then if they choose to make them unisex, I'm OK with that.
It's not the hill I'm going to die on.

But of course they won't.....

M&S have great changing rooms with doors (in the ones I go to) so what's the problem? No different to swimming baths or H&m which have been like this for decades.
You do know a trans women is more likely to be attacked than attack someone and if someone is pretending to be trans to get access then they are the issue and would try anyway tm so why attack trans people?

I agree JJPP

Actual doors with locks (like loo cubicles) and let anyone use it.

More efficient for queues as well - rather than having a half-empty men's and a queue for the women's (or vice versa), have the full number of cubicles available to everyone.

No, I suggested that she read the other threads in which the issue is already under discussion. Nobody is obliged to explain this stuff for the 500th time just because someone asks.

Don't even know what to say about the pink dress, other than that everyone involved in its production from design to its arrival in stores should feel shame.

LostSpace, with all due respect, could you maybe read any of the other gazillion threads on here about changing rooms/bathrooms? I'm not the only woman who's not comfortable with this.

THIS is the whole issue with trans threads. Someone's come in with an opposing opinion and you've basically told her to go away.

FWIW I think properly cubicled rooms is the best solution. Frankly, given the state of some of the curtains that are supposed to cover you, I'd rather not change in front of other women let alone men.

For once, a trans issue I can't get too worried about (tongue firmly in cheek, in case that needs stating). We'll give them M&S, they can have the pink dress of awfulness, and we'll keep the rest of women's spaces. This feels like a compromise I can work with.

Even if there was a way to guarantee safety I still just simply don't want to be naked/semi dressed in spaces where there are men, or boys past puberty. I feel like a broken record here, but once again - women shouldn't have to be terrified or at imminent risk of being murdered in order to justify having boundaries. Not wanting to get undressed in front of male randoms should be enough.

@LostSight I'm pretty sure women get harassed, abused, and raped in Norway too. I have a Norwegian friend who isn't at all pleased about the rules allowing trans males with intact penises to change and shower in the women's changing area at the swimming pools, with women and young girls.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable enough in female only changing rooms that have just a curtain that anyone could flip aside/yank open while I'm changing. I'd never use unisex changing rooms with that. If they open onto the shop itself and are doors that can be bolted shut I'm fine with them being unisex, as they're secure. But if a shop has a men's area and women's area, then yes, penises to the men's and vaginas to the women's (and trans people can't complain because they should be all for 'mixed' changing rooms.)

If they are going to have mixed cubicles needs to be lockable doors not curtains.

LostSpace, with all due respect, could you maybe read any of the other gazillion threads on here about changing rooms/bathrooms? I'm not the only woman who's not comfortable with this.

He was doing a lot of dramatic huffing and puffing and loud mumbling about how us girls always have such long queues to stand in.

So he can bugger off and try it on somewhere else, then.

I was under the impression that one of the reasons for keeping cubicles segregated was to stop couples going into a cubicle together and having sex.....

What a weird world we live in...

Does it make you feel unsafe AngryAttackKittens? It seems absolutely normal to me. There are quite a lot of toilets here in Norway where they have male toilets, female toilets and mixed toilets too. Third spaces are quite common here and I like it. But then society here is more equal in general. I feel sometimes I live a really sheltered life. I get shocked when I go on holiday and remember how different it can be.

There was a bloke directly behind me in the queue for the M&S lingerie changing room at Xmas. I was waiting to try on bras. He was wanting to be in there to try on a coat. He was wearing silver high heels and a full face of make up, but was also sporting designer stubble. He was doing a lot of dramatic huffing and puffing and loud mumbling about how us girls always have such long queues to stand in.

I'm especially thinking of young girls going to get their first bras. There will be discussion with mum/a clerk/someone. With a man potentially in the next cubicle? I'd have been so uncomfortable at that age.

The changing rooms at my local M&S have changed quite a bit. There used to be a desk where you'd be given a ticket for the clothes you were taking in. All the blokes used to sit on benches outside looking grumpy. Now you walk in without any checks at all, and last time I saw a youth in there. It was okay because there are individual cubicles, but if it'd been 50/50 blokes/women that might have felt odd. It also means you can't just wander out to show someone else what you're trying on.

and stock