Is "cis" the future ?

TheCatsPaws wrote - "Can someone explain the anger at cis? I have no strong feelings on it, and generally ascribe to let people be. "

"Cis" is deliberately designed by supporters of transgenderism to promote "trans" to the top of the trans / non-trans hierarchy. "Cis" is not equal and opposite to "trans". Trans is set up as being the purest expression (perhaps even the only true expression) of gender non-conformity or gender discomfort, even though there are political alternatives to transgenderism e.g. gender-critical feminism.

"Cis" is used as a weapon against gender-critical people, particularly feminists, to minimise or ignore any discomfort these people may have about their assigned gender roles. It is not letting people be.

While at the same time you see t shirts with 'die cis scum'.

No.

The whole ruddy government need training in cluster B personalities and working with them. And then training in the use of 123 Magic.

Incidentally if 'cis' ever really took off, then that would be the next target to appropriate. You think women would be allowed 'cis women bathrooms' or 'cis women hospital wards'?

Of course they wouldn't be allowed. It would be transphobic and all of a sudden 'transwomen' would be actual 'cis women'. Infact some already describe themselves as cis women, or even biological women

It just takes women repeating 'no'. That is increasingly becoming my view on this whole mess. My whole answer comes down to "No. And stop being so damn silly ." Anyone who calls me cis is going to be asked very clearly to stop it, and I bet I'm better equipped on the subject than they are if they want me to explain why. When other women see women confidently rejecting this labelling/box/ please sir may I have another bullshit they will do the same.

The average person in the street won't play these silly word games or swallow the concepts, they won't expend the high effort it takes to engage with TRA language and logic, they won't waste their time massaging egos and propping up other people's subjective fantasies as superior to their own reality. The only reason the women here play along enough to engage with it is because of the interest in feminism and women's rights in the light of it, plus many here have an interest in the pathology and psychology of it all. If this goes far enough to ever really get into the public eye (and public changing rooms, and public hospital wards) there won't be pandering to the AGP swinging his dick and smirking at someone's mum or daughter. There will be a whole lot of very ugly scenes and a massive backlash.

Incidentally if 'cis' ever really took off, then that would be the next target to appropriate. You think women would be allowed 'cis women bathrooms' or 'cis women hospital wards'?

Sweetheart yeah, I mean people who have surgery and/or at least live as and make the attempt to live as a woman.

Danielle Muscato, for example, shouldn’t be allowed to use the women’s bathroom but I’d have no issue with Laverne Cox using it. Does that make sense?

CatsPaws like all of us here, it sounds like you are not against transsexual or indeed transgender people at all. We are concerned about the impact of the new GRA (gender recognition act) proposals which allows any person to self identify as the opposite gender on a whim. "Transitioning" is about to become meaningless as transition will begin and end as soon as the person has the idea, and could be as simple as wearing a dress or calling themselves Danielle instead of Daniel. Do you mean surgery (which only 15% of trans identified males undergo)?

The irony is, transsexuals (or "truscum" as many transactivists call them) have been quietly using women's loos etc for years. This.movement is as damaging to them as it is to women.

An enormous TERF unfortunately. It's where most of us came from.

Honestly, I don’t think trans women who have no intention of transitioning shouldn’t get to use women’s services. But I think fully transitioned women should. I dunno what that makes me.

Basically, your right to swing your arms around ends at my nose.

I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too without being blamed.

Wonderful. Me too. And for that matter I think prison should be safe for everyone; trans, gay, sex offenders, everyone. But I would still keep people with penises and people with vaginas housed separately. Do you agree with that?

Laine01 Thu 01-Feb-18 15:36:58
I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too without being blamed.

You asked what harm it would do to women to let men who say they are women use their spaces and services.
I asked why they couldn't have their own.

I'm not sure how you get blaming out of that. No one is blaming. We just want to keep the services we need.
We cant do that if men can say they are actual, biological women.

Also maybe worth saying, most people think 'transwoman' and think post op transsexual. This is not what transwoman means today and indeed not many trans people have any kind of surgeries and such anyway, they just declare themselves the opposite sex and apparently thats it and they should have the rights of the opposite sex.

There are also a fair few cases of male people being sent to female prisons. Male people with working penises, who have been sent to prison for sex offences against female people..too.

And many cases of male people competing in female sports and taking medals and such due to their biological advantage.

I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too without being blamed.

Trans Rights Activists are campaigning very vocally for access to female spaces. No one here wants to stop transgender people existing or wishes they any harm. It just isn't anywhere near that simple and women are at harm if they don't have sex-segregated spaces, particularly in places like prisons.

If you are genuinely intetested there is masses of information on mumsnet which will help you get your head around it all. It's daunting with all the acronyms but people are quite willing to explain things for you if you are confused.

I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too without being blamed.

This is how the trans agenda threatens womens rights. Trans identified males (some know these as transwomen) are being given womens rights, despite not being women. With womens rights they are able to use female only areas (not just loos, that these convos come back to. Prisons, hospital wards etc), and even have claim to the word woman!

So basically, those fighting for 'trans rights; are actually fighting to remove the rights of female people to female only areas

A third space option is the answer. Not bullying the world into accepting male people are actually female

There have also already been a few cases of people going to hospitals and such for medical treatments, and being presented with a male person when they have asked for a woman. A case of someone with a fear of men being placed on a 'sex segregated' psychiatric ward with a male person too.

i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too

They can, with pleasure. We support that. The problem is that they don't want THEIR places, they want OURS - biological females, for every male-bodied person that claims they identify as female.

That's the crux of the issue, and what we apparently transphobes are worried about.

Can someone explain the anger at cis? I have no strong feelings on it, and generally ascribe to let people be.

This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to start an argument.

Laine, I mentioned the sex offender because that was in the news only last week. Did you miss it? The campaign to move a male, who committed those offences while burgling teenagers' bedrooms, to a women's prison?

How have I blown that out of proportion?

The thing is, if you support the idea that the rights of transgender males outweigh the rights of women and girls, you don't just get to pick the nice ones.

I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces

Ah. Then you're a mahoosive transphobe. Who-da-thunk-it?

HTH

@Upstartcrow

I never said women can't have women only spaces i am all for women only spaces i just don't see why transgender people can't have their place in this world too without being blamed.

@Dodopatrol
You have blown this a wee bit out of proportion but i will respond anyway as i'm happy to cover all angles and sides.
Of course i don't support the right of a sex offender i don't support any, i have the same lack of respect for transgender sex offenders as i do cis ones(same with murder ect)

I'm not saying anyone deserves any more respect than any others, i believe that there's room for us all to function in society if we all just got along and were more respectful to each other(however i know that will never happen)

@Datun
Thanks for the article I'll read it now

'cis' will be the future in places where people are baffled as to where babies come from and women die of preventable disorders.

Laine01

It's not about transitioning or the lives of trans people. It's about women's rights.

Trans people should have the right to work, housing, access to medical services and wear what they like without fear of discrimination.

Non conformity to gender stereotypes should be acceptable on all levels.

Trans people are protected under the equality law, and the gender recognition act.

Men who self identify as women (without a gender recognition certificate) are campaigning to be ceded women's rights. Specifically for women. So all women shortlists and the right to be transferred to a female prison, irrespective of whether or not they are sex a offender.

It's also about dismantling the current protocols of sex segregation in the female spaces such as toilets, locker rooms, changing rooms, sport etc.

It's not about feminists. It's about the legal definition of the word woman. And whether the legal definition should include any man.

The campaign is for self identification, which is merely downloading and completing an administrative form.

Feminists are the ones who initially started to talk about it, because they are at the coalface of women's rights.

But it affects all women and girls. Every last one.

Here is a (partial) list of rights that will be affected.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women/amp/

Laine, do you support the right of a transgender sex offender to express his femininity by masturbating in a teenage girl's bedroom? Is her subsequent suicide attempt of any interest to you, or only the angst caused to the sex offender if someone then calls him a male?

If you're curious as you say, Laine01 you'll find your answer in the thread linked above by Datun.

Back to OP, cis won't be adopted generally, because its redundant, insulting snd people usually choose the simplest words to communicate and cis doesn't help there. Also? People who try to adopt it will inevitably use it in lieu of 'normal/real/actual/biological' and that will piss off TRAs no end until they drop it for the next made up word.