Is "cis" the future ?

mtf are just as female as anyone else and ftm are just as male as anyone else.

If you really think this then why do you also say that you can see why prisons and shelters are an issue.

This is serious cognitive dissonance, you can't have it both ways.

People are people. Chill.

Yet another solve! We're on fire here today people!

I can see where you're coming from with prisons and rape crisis shelters but i don't see the problem with any others to be honest, mtf are just as female as anyone else and ftm are just as male as anyone else.

I can understand your insecurities though.

Everyone's opinions are different and i don't consider myself a feminist(i'm more of an equalitist) so i can't ever quite understand your fear or sorrows.
I hope one day we all learn to get along, until then i hope we continue giving the transgenders the respect they deserve and get treated like the women and men they are x

Why is everything got to be segregated by sex or gender or whatever the fuck SJWs call it these days? People are people. Chill.

Are there any issues other than toilets?

Seriously?!!!

Prisons, rape crisis centres, homeless shelters, rights to ask for female healthcare practitioners, gym changing rooms, schools changing rooms, to name but a few.

Since the vast majority of TIMs now appear to be AGP they will never agree to a third space as part of the fetish is being in women only spaces for the (sexual) thrill and/or validation.

Third spaces have been proffered and rejected time and again as a solution because it is "othering", when what is really ment is AGPs can't get their rocks off.

Fuck off with women being used as props in a fetishist's fantasy.

I'm sure they'll come to an agreement

Yeah. Definitely. It's a good job you came along to solve this. Well done. Pop over to Twitter and let Lily know it's all sorted would you?

Also,
Are there any issues other than toilets?

Trans women can still be called and treated like women x

Honestly i don't see a problem with sharing the same toilets but i know people get worried and feel insecure ect and i understand how that can feel for some people so we need to make a deal with them if others aren't going to accept it, and for the respect they deserve I'm sure they'll come to an agreement x

Like unisex toilets, safe spaces for biological women and different services/ideas for transsexuals.

But they don't want unisex toilets or different services/ideas - they want WOMENS!

There would be no problem whatsoever if they were happy who have their own spaces!

Laine01
But thats what we've been asking for, and why we are called TERF's. Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists.

Trans people don't want a third space, it doesnt validate them. They want us to call them women and let them take on all the roles that women have, including giving smear tests.

I feel like some things can be changed to ensure the safety of women and allow transgenders the rights they deserve

Like unisex toilets, safe spaces for biological women and different services/ideas for transsexuals.

Everyone can be who they want and still be happy/safe x

Thanks everyone. You’ve all explained it really well, and I definitely understand why it’s not a pleasant term. Cheers.

Apologies if I've Xposted, that'll teach to read the full thread!

Many PPs have already covered why I utterly reject the term "cis".

It is also used as a snide way of framing cunty people (whoever coined that term, here's to you!) as the oppressor class over TIMs.

Following this logic a woman or girl who has experienced FGM/ can't attend school because there are no toilet facilities/ is subject to child marriage/ is sent to prison for having an abortion etc, etc, etc is
more privileged than the likes of Caitlyn Jenner/ Jennifer Pritzker or indeed any other white western TIM.

It is a load of cuntybollocks imao.

x posted with a few there

We are told that cis means having a gender identity that matches your sex.

1. To adopt the word 'cis' involves a tacit acceptance of the concept of 'gender identity' in the first place. This is the idea that it is possible to 'feel like' a man, woman, something inbetween or something else entirely, without any reference to one's physical sex or to sex roles or stereotypes. Gender identity is supposed to be an immutable internal essence that we are all born with. It's a faith based assertion for which there is no evidence - like souls.

2. The feminist understanding of gender is all the sex roles and stereotypes that are imposed on people because of their sex. It's a hierarchy with women and girls at the bottom. To say we are cis is to say we are comfortable with our own oppression.

3. To adopt the word 'cis' is to tacitly accept that there are two sorts of women - trans and cis, i.e. that transwomen are a subset of women as opposed to a subset of men. So we get 'transwomen are women' and all the problems that result from that.

Terry I actually completely agree with that.

I have no issues with trans women but your explanation makes sense and it’s very unfair to claim “cis women” are privileged when they have to deal with sexist crap their entire lives.

The more I think about this the more I dislike it.

That's my issue. If trans denotes rejecting the gender nonsense attached to your sex, cis denotes accepting the gender nonsense, which I most certainly do not.

I think a lot of women fall into the 'how much of this bullshit do I have to perform to fit in?' versus 'how harmful is this bullshit to me and mine'. So I shave my pits and sit with my legs together, not because I want to but because I know it would cause me problems if I didn't. I didn't take DH's name because it causes no issues. I like quilting and cooking so that's a gimme. I also like cars and beer but that's OK because it's 'cute' when women like cars and beer. I'm loud and opinionated because although it causes me problems, it is also very important to me. And on and on.

If some men want to simper and wear dresses and make-up, more power to them. But that is certainly not what causes female oppression; the performance of gender roles, so stop saying cis is a privilege and stop pretending trans women are the 'most oppressed women'. Because they simply aren't.

unicorn thank you for a very detailed post about why cis is disliked.

You raise a good point about female stereotypes - what does being a woman actually feel like? I wouldn’t know because I consider myself a person, and each woman is different from another.

I can see why it’s disliked.

cis is supposed to mean that your gender identity matches your biological sex (and immediately that means you have 'privilege' over anyone whose doesn't. Enter the whole 'feminists must centre trans women' argument)

So the moment you use the word cis you buy into/ validate the politics there.

It also means you buy into the whole gender stereotypes thing if you feel your 'assigned gender identity' matches your biological sex. (ie if you have a vagina, do you like pink, long hair, high heels, are emotional and irrational, poor at parking and maths/science, please park your stereotypes and disempowerment of women here.)

I don't buy into gender stereotypes. I believe women come in a massive range of shapes, sizes, personalities, likes, dislikes, skills etc without any of those indicating a 'gender'.

So no, the 'assigned gender' associated with women does not to me equal people with vaginas, xx chromosomes and the capacity to gestate a child. I am not 'cis'.

And besides all that, to me its very rude to go around shoving labels on people to force them into boxes of my choice without consulting them first.

I suspect that in future we will regard people not wanting to be called "cis" as we now regard people not wanting to be called "straight" (because they are just normal and we shouldn't need a word for it).

Vesuvia do you have examples? I always thought it was the opposite to trans, like left and right, fast and slow.

Women should reject the label of cis - even though i have 'been told' it just means the opposite of trans. Why should we be labelled something that means the opposite of a mental health / psychological condition or a sexual fetish or someone who isnt brave enough to be gender non conforming within their own sex.