Is "cis" the future ?

I know the type of person you're talking about LangCleg they need protecting from this movement as much as. There really needs to be a legal distinction made between old style transsexuals and absolute wankers, they have absolutely nothing in common.

But presenting as a woman alleviates the symptoms?

Isn't that the old style transsexual? They don't insist they are actually women, or have a female brain. They just find presenting as women diminishes the dysphoria.

I think "not presenting as a man" is more accurate? A fine distinction I know, but a real one. Doesn't present feminine any more than I do.

Yes to the old school transsexual. This person is in their 50s and transitioned a very, very, very long time ago.

(Sorry if I'm being a bit vague. Very private person and would not much want to see themselves discussed in public.)

Just a deep hatred for their own male body that years of therapy did nothing to abate.

But presenting as a woman alleviates the symptoms?

Isn't that the old style transsexual? They don't insist they are actually women, or have a female brain. They just find presenting as women diminishes the dysphoria.

This isn't meant to be goady, btw. I'm genuinely trying to understand the different types.

I feel incredibly sorry for those who just wanted to quietly go about their lives.

To add - and the only "trans right" they are interested in is the right to have nobody notice them at all.

I haven't read Blanchard for ages, but how does your friend's experience differ from what he said? Is it because your friend doesn't fit the homosexual transsexual category, because he's not homosexual?

I think because the motivation was body hatred.

No sexual motivation so not really Blanchardian (not turned on by self as woman or external validation as woman, so not AGP; not sexually attracted to straight men, so not HSTS either).

Also doesn't fit with the genderist framework - no belief in having some kind of ineffable woman's soul or essence.

Just a deep hatred for their own male body that years of therapy did nothing to abate.

Yy, WiggyPig

It's interesting how often the TRA discourse can be picked apart by thinking about what is often said about lesbians: that they don't look / act like "real women", that by leaving men out of their sexual desires they are man-haters etc etc. And then we see that it's the same old shit that has been doled out for ever, it's just a new vessel for doing it.

I can never quite get my point across on why I hate cis so much to people who think it's a neutral descriptor.

Great post, WiggyPig. You articulate it very well.

My problem with "cis" is that it provides justification for treating women badly.

Here's the Stonewall glossary: www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Trans: an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Gender: often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

Trans covers a lot of people these days, not just transsexuals. It certainly covers me (am I FUCK comfortable with the culturally determined assumptions made about me from my sex at birth). It covers all of those feminists described as TERFs. It covers every woman who thinks that the culturally determined assumptions of their era are bullshit - from the Suffragettes to anti-porn campaigners.

And it redefines women - "cis" women, "real" women - as being those who ARE comfortable with cultural constraints. Which means that we're back to those constraints being innate in some way which provides ample justification for continued oppression. Women are oppressed because of culturally determined gender, with which "cis" women IDENTIFY. If you don't identify with it then you're not a woman at all.

I'm a lesbian (the short-haired hairy-pitted type), and this isn't the first time I've heard "you're not a real woman" "what sort of woman are you" etc. It's just that now we call this "progress."

And probably called panromantic ace transgender or something by someone under 25.

So no gender dysphoria then?

Just another thing
(for want of a better word)

See, I listen to my teenagers sometimes!

I thought I'd try to get this weeks' terminology right before I found my self on the Wrong Side of History again, which will doubtless be next week.

If someone is attracted to women (or at least not attracted to men), but not turned on by the thought of themself as a woman, that would be a third category.

That would indeed be a third category. And definitely not one that Blanchard identified.

Although, from memory, I think he did say that transitioning will often either lower the libido, or over time, it becomes less important?

He's written again, recently, about causes of gender dysphoria. I might have to take another look at that.

I've definitely come across young trans people who claim to be "ace".

Dodo I would laugh but I think that's possibly an actual term!

I think I can.

If someone is attracted to women (or at least not attracted to men), but not turned on by the thought of themself as a woman, that would be a third category.

And probably called panromantic ace transgender or something by someone under 25.

I do agree LangCleg and I'm not without sympathy but when you have labour officials publicly stating this sort of shit, I feel pushed to take a very hard line.

My friend basically says this. Also, they feel that the Blanchard typology is over-simplistic as they don't fit either the HSTS or AGP profiles. Rather, they had severe body dysmorphia and physical transition provided a relief from this. If you asked my friend, they would say that they know that they are not a woman but they don't feel like a man any more either. Happiness came eventually when they found the self acceptance to acknowledge that there is a third, perfectly authentic, way to be in the world.

I haven't read Blanchard for ages, but how does your friend's experience differ from what he said? Is it because your friend doesn't fit the homosexual transsexual category, because he's not homosexual?

I'm not disputing what your friend says. I just can't immediately see the difference.

Basically they felt sad anxious and depressed about being male so decided to opt out.

My friend basically says this. Also, they feel that the Blanchard typology is over-simplistic as they don't fit either the HSTS or AGP profiles. Rather, they had severe body dysmorphia and physical transition provided a relief from this. If you asked my friend, they would say that they know that they are not a woman but they don't feel like a man any more either. Happiness came eventually when they found the self acceptance to acknowledge that there is a third, perfectly authentic, way to be in the world.

And I think most of we feminists here on this site, are truly accepting of that - even to the extent, in many, although not all scenarios, of accepting such folk into our spaces.

The problem is that the movement for social acceptance for this very vulnerable but also very tiny population has been hijacked by a bunch of vicious and violent misogynist cross-dressing fetishist MRAs. That people in power cannot see this, that the hare-brained liberal feminists can't see this, and that TPTB are going to great lengths to prevent the wider population from seeing this - THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

@Datun "My advice would be to always look under the surface of what people say"

I am sorry to sound simpering, but you are always so wise. I read about Laverne Cox and that prisoner. It's sickening.

male doctors...

@Dinosauratemydaffodils I'm sorry for all the experiences you've suffered. I just wanted to say your explanation is amazingly insightful and the two make doctors a credit to the profession.

I often feel like a failed adult so maybe I should identify as a teenager again.

Datun recently on twitter two transwoman described how they 'knew' they were really women. Basically they felt sad anxious and depressed about being male so decided to opt out.

I have had this conversation with several who say the same.

Women are not failed men therefore failed men are not Women, suggesting that this is the case is misogyny. Failed men are certainly not my or my daughters problem and we will be keeping our rights.

Absolutely agree.

There is a 3rd option of extremely misogynistic. That is one knows perfectly well how babies are made and that TIMs are not women but one is happy to lie in order to support a woman hating woman erasing ideology.

YY. I think that stance describes 99% of "progressive" male allies, certainly.