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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women’s Place launch statement.

30 replies

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2018 15:05

here

What do people think?

OP posts:
titchy · 31/01/2018 17:55

Agree it's a good measured statement. I'd have liked to have seen some reference to schools' policies regarding trans pupils but still good despite that.

Datun · 31/01/2018 17:47

They are working within the current law.

The current law is sufficient to protect women's actual rights.

That is different to cultural attitudes and protocols.

I, personally, see this as a step in the right direction.

Partly because it deconstructs the law down to its constituent parts and how it can be exploited. Thereby urging parliament to make the exemptions more visible and more commonly applied.

There is no law that says men can't say they are women, or go into women's toilets. Or, apparently, rape refuges and shelters.

But.

By asking, or insisting, on clarification around how women can reject men, they will, eventually, alter the public perception of what is and isn't acceptable.

"A proportionate means to legitimate aim."

I'm thinking of, say, a lesbian public gathering.

The organisers would have to take a poll of the lesbians and poll of the transwomen and make a decision.

Currently, transactivists disregard this process. By intimidation and bullying.

What needs to happen is that women acquire an unshakable conviction they can use the law to ensure their 'legitimate aim'.

It needs to become utterly commonplace, before the culture subsequently rides with it.

Recently there have been two incidents. The company who made bras for adolescent girls and the vegan lesbian restaurant.

They were both targeted and piled on by transactivists in attempt to change the words in their marketing and/or shut them down.

Then there was another company (I can't remember what they were selling/providing) who said:

WOMEN ONLY
As per the equality act section 2 sub clause 5

(or whatever it is).

Yes, transactivists could still have targeted them. But, culturally, it was a lot harder because the women knew the law.

Women complaining that they will not avail themselves of the service IS a legitimate aim.

They just need to invoke it. No company would be criticised for saying, but we will lose half our customers.

stoneagefertilitydoll · 31/01/2018 17:23

CAse by case used to work, the honour system was fine for years, because the transsexual women were honourable. But if they have to have a fixed rule, than it has to be 'No'

PencilsInSpace · 31/01/2018 16:53

I think it's brilliant - calm, measured and clear.

UpstartCrow, 'case by case basis' is how the equality act currently works for the sex based exceptions. Woman's place are calling for the principle of women only spaces to be upheld and extended where necessary, as well as a review of how the exceptions are (not being) used at the moment. The case by case justification is a big part of why organisations are afraid to use the exceptions at all.

UpstartCrow · 31/01/2018 15:47

I'll support it, but.

I think things are moving so fast and getting so nasty that I'm now very concerned about the 'case by case basis' aspect of allowing trans identifying men into women's spaces.
That means someone has to look at a trans person and judge them. I don't think that is fair or reasonable on either party.

Where a space or service is currently sex based it should stay that way. If trans people feel they need their own service then they need to make a gender neutral one.
'Gender neutral' would mean anyone could use it without any process, and it wouldn't involve trans people having to out themselves.

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