Oh dear Harriet Harman

Yeah, mrsmig, I had read she'd been accused of terfery, but then went and googled (after posting here... doh!) and found a load of stuff she's said which completely contradicted her being gender critical Ah well.

I think we've lost too. But at least in the future when perhaps the horror really comes to light and the silly little libfems who backed all of this for headpats realise what they have done, we'll know that we spoke up against this, and that has to count for something.

'I find it hard to countenance that this is all really happening. It's quite terrifying'

It really is. It's hard to overstate how serious and how wrong this all is

Sadly Caitlin could not have made a better job of missing the point. As transwomen and women are quite clearly not 'gunning for the same thing'.

I don't think Caitlin Moran is sadly Collida, she's a total libfem. She said - and try to get to the end without cringing for her -

"Someone saying to a transgender woman, 'You're not a proper woman because you weren't physically born a woman' is like someone saying to me that I'm not a proper woman because I've had an abortion, or have a job, or can't walk in heels, or think Ryan Gosling looks like a bit of a donk." She adds, "I think the relationship between feminism and transgender women should be absolutely sympathetic, arms-slung-around-shoulders and all-on-the-same-side. We're all gunning for the same thing — equality, feeling comfortable in our own skin, not automatically cringing or feeling unworthy or 'other.'"

She knows what pays the bills too, so even if she has peaktransed since saying that, she's not going to say a word. None of them will.

Thanks Maidofstars.

I think I've read that Caitlin Moran is gender critical.

The worst that can happen to an MP who speaks out is they can have the whip taken away from them. They would remain in parliament until the next election. Personally I feel that if you are not prepared to speak out on legislation that is being taken through Parliament that is very seriously detrimental to society, particularly when based on lunacy, you should not be an MP at all. I am pretty sure that if an MP I would speak out on this and on Brexit, if nothing else. Caring about their constituents and the country is the main thing in their job description, surely.
Do they want to copy the republicans who are not speaking out about Trump?

First time in my life I've considered leaving. (Labour party)

It's forcing me to question myself.

Stella Creasy is fully on board the Trans Train, despite massive confusion over what is sex and what is gender.

Jess Phillips has kept her cards reasonably close. Could go either way.

Caitlin Moran, no idea.

Do any of you know where feminists like Jess Philips, Stella Creasy and Caitlin Moran stand on this issue ? I think alot of influential women are keeping well under the radar.

The ship has sailed for LGB leaving T. If all the L’s left, there’d still be all the New-Ls waiting to take their place - that’d include TIMs and their girlfriends who are having a het relationship whilst telling themselves they’re L.

We’ve lost. Even if we hold back the tide for ten minutes, we’ve still lost.

I think that what HH said was that if someone was putting themselves forward as male to female transgender without actually being one (so just taking advantage to become an MP) the selection committee would not be taken in and would not select them.

I still feel like I am in the midst of some awful TV series about a future dystopia where women are forced to say that men are women or else they are punished. I find it hard to countenance that this is all really happening. It's quite terrifying. I am afraid of how this will end, when the Liam Madigans of this world are in twenty years running the country and rooting out all the wrongthinkers.

Although I am totally despairing at the sheer cowardice of women MPs who I know will in reality understand about the dangers of self ID and the dangers of medical experimentation on children, I also know that If they dared to stand up against this their careers would be over.
When I see the level of vitriol casually hurled at feminists (thinking of that charmer Natasha Devon writing in the TES or the misogynist lefty males twatterers), not to mention the attacks on labour party women, I sort of understand why they are keeping quiet. The male far left are gunning for them at the moment and they probably reckon that if they stay 'inside the tent ' at the moment, they may be able to mediate at a later stage. Of course, it's cowardly but I'm not actually sure what option they have - they would be obliterated. As the Labour party are hauling over the coals CLP women members, imagine what they'd do to any MPs who stand up and speak?
I'm really not defending them - just trying to understand why people who understand safeguarding, have children, deal with teenagers etc and presumably understand the difference between beliefs and scientific facts are being so careless with children and women's safety..... And fear of the activists is the only explanation I can think of.

Some of us have long memories when it comes to HH and her support for dodgy causes.

Doesn't surprise me. She's my MP and I emailed my concerns about self ID etc a couple of months ago. Never heard a word back. Why are they all so scared about this?

Sorry, I meant voted for in the sense of them being selected in the CLP. Because as we know there's never any undue influence in CLPs.

But even if the public don't vote in a self id trans person that's still at least one woman who didn't get a look in at all as part of AWS and it's likely that the winning candidate against a TIM would be a male. Women lose out which ever way you look at it.

I wonder how many PIE supporting lefties are now on the trans band wagon.

Strike out fail

Hipster I kind of agree with her that people will probably not vote for anyone that looks like they are taking the piss —except not sure if Miss Madigan throws that argument out of the window— but no one in government is going to be at physical risk with a self ID’d individual anyway.

My recollection hipsterfun is that HH was saying that self-ID on AWS couldn't be wrong because if a candidate was not good then they wouldn't be voted for. More a case of "everything is fine because it's self-correcting".

Maybe HH could come on for a MN webchat and explain why she agrees with JC on this since I doubt that JC will do a webchat.

The only thing that can change the direction for this issue is either LGB cut themselves loose from the TA or for something to go horribly wrong in the public eye connected to self ID or transitioning.
I’ve only been on twitter for two weeks. It’s been an eye-opener!