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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What would it mean to you "to live in the acquired gender" or as the opposite sex?

60 replies

MarSeeAh · 30/01/2018 13:10

I plan to go and speak to my MSP next week and have been thinking about what questions I can ask him and how best to get my point over. I thought I could ask him what changes he would have to make "to live as a woman".

Then I started to wonder what changes I would have to make "to live as a man".

Not many. Even if I go along with the stereotypes of "presenting" as male, there's not much to do. Today, at work as Parish Minister, I am wearing Docs, jeans, vest top, sweatshirt and scarf. When I was out earlier, I wore an anorak which was originally my uncle's. I don't wear make-up or perfume, I don't wear any jewellery, and my haircut is more common for men than it is for women.

I work in a profession with pay scales which are agreed annually, published and are the same for men and women, so I wouldn't be able to demand extra pay as a man.

I am single, so wouldn't have the problems associated with telling a partner or spouse that I'd changed! Although, so far, I'm not sure that they'd notice anyway unless I told them!

Hmmm....

What would change?

I would pay less for a haircut.

Would I get my state pension at a different age? I think I should receive that when I'm 67 or 68. Occupational pension - no difference.

To be honest, I would have to change more if I were to try to live according to sexist stereotypes of what a woman is.

Anyone else? What would you have to change?

OP posts:
BeyondWitchbitchterf · 30/01/2018 15:08

How does it work with a unisex name, I wonder?

How does Sam prove that Sam is no longer Sam🚹 but now Sam🚺? Confused

LangCleg · 30/01/2018 15:03

Insofar as the law goes, "living in your acquired gender" just means "tell all officialdom you're a woman/man now". It means getting a statutory name change declaration done, getting the name on your bank account changed, getting your bill accounts changed, applying for jobs in your new gender, etc etc. Then prove to TPTB that you've been doing that for two years.

It doesn't really have anything to do with actual behaviour.

creaturefeatures · 30/01/2018 15:02

Interestingly for me I was raised by a feminist and she was a single Mum for most of my formative years so I suspect I haven't had the same degree of socialisation to be a 'woman' as a lot of people...

drspouse · 30/01/2018 14:58

I work in a profession with pay scales which are agreed annually, published and are the same for men and women, so I wouldn't be able to demand extra pay as a man.

I think you should, as if you identify as a man you should also identify as school pals/retreat pals with all of those men who knew when they were 18 or even younger that they were going to be ministers (at which point I'm assuming you may not even have been allowed to be a minister, or at least having no or few role models) - hence stepping on the career ladder earlier, getting preferential treatment from their mates. Also you would have had a wee wifie in the manse who would have baked cakes for the parish and the moderator, again pushing you up the career ladder.

So you should demand to be treated as if you had always been male and hence were now earning a higher salary, and in a better position career wise.

creaturefeatures · 30/01/2018 14:49

Oh...my name. I have a girly first name. But not my surname as both DH & I double-barrelled to take each other's name.

So basically clothes, make up, tits, sewing and cats are all that determine me as a Davina not my real name rather than a Dave

creaturefeatures · 30/01/2018 14:47

And I don't move out of the way of men when walking through the City Wink

creaturefeatures · 30/01/2018 14:45

Mine would be primarily appearance or quite shallow things really. Honestly if there was some kind of 'trans assessment' by the trans lobby with their ridiculous views of what makes someone a woman I'd probably overall come out as a man in a dress Grin

Things I'd need to change:

  • Clothes to 'man clothes' as I do tend to wear relatively feminine clothes
  • Stop wearing make up and cut hair, though technically what I'm sporting at the moment is basically a 'man bun'
  • Tell DH he is now married to a man. He'd be bemused but I suspect wouldn't care as not much would be different
  • Stop caring as much about women's rights
  • Stop volunteering for Cats Protection and volunteer at Dogs Trust
  • Hobbies: stop crafting and start cycling(?)

Things I Wouldn't Need to Change:

  • Career: I'm a freelance management consultant in the City
  • Pay: I get paid pretty well and as I'm freelance I set my own rates. I earn 5 x DH's salary
  • Share of housework: I'm lazy and DH does a fair share, I do all of the finances and DH doesn't really want to know the details
  • DC primary carer: DH will be the SAHP when we have DC
  • Car/Driving: I'm a fast driver and like cars that go fast. I hate being overtaken.
  • Unemotional/logical outlook: I cry rarely and less than DH does. I'm very logical in my thinking
  • Drive/confidence/outspokenness: I have these and apparently shouldn't as a woman
  • Not caring what other people think: as above
  • Material assets: I own our home and car
LostSight · 30/01/2018 14:37

I want a functioning penis. Don’t care about the sex thing. I’d just like the convenience of being able to stand up to pee.

I don’t think I could ‘pass’ as a man. I’ve got wobbly bits in all the wrong places.

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 30/01/2018 14:29

I'm not changing anything - I'm a man therefore have the sheer bollocks to just claim I'm "broadening the bandwidth of being Male"

ChemistryGeek · 30/01/2018 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

allegretto · 30/01/2018 14:22

I think it's such a red herring to think about passing anyway. I am a woman and I have occasionally been mistaken for a man. Does that mean I am less of a woman??!

OvaHere · 30/01/2018 14:15

The idea that most really pass is such an internet thing. Outside of a very small number of cases it really is just smoke and mirrors.

I used to think a lot of trans men passed quite well and whilst some do have the advantage of height if they were tall in the first place it's a really interesting exercise to see them placed next to natal groups of people rather than individual photos or selfies.

The first example I can remember is the person who was on the cover of Mens Health magazine. It was probably my first real exposure to TIF and I remember being shocked at what testosterone could actually do. However if you compare the cover shot with the group shot then you start to realise it's not quite as it seems.

www.pinknews.co.uk/images/2015/10/Aydian.png

vs

www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/2015/10/12/mh-umhg-final5-2015-600x450.jpg

ChemistryGeek · 30/01/2018 14:11

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PositivelyPERF · 30/01/2018 14:08

Upstart that’s brilliant and once the non perverse men have to cope with women walking past them when they’ve got their penis (peni?) out, they might have a better understanding of women’s concerns. I’ll just say I’m a man, if questioned. 😇

HairyBallTheorem · 30/01/2018 14:06

"I posted this on another thread, but a transman on Twitter called Steven whittle said that his wife knew he was a man because he doesn’t know any of the names of his children’s friends"

Ha! DS regularly tests me with the aid of his school class photo. I regularly fail.

I suppose I'd have to cut my hair. Then again, I've known plenty of men with fabulous long hair, so why shouldn't I keep it long? Widen the bandwidth of being male and all that jazz.

NotAWhacktivist · 30/01/2018 14:04

@See yes this is a good point:

allegretto · 30/01/2018 14:04

The only thing I could think of is I could stop worrying about the walk home from the bus stop late at night which is down a dark alleyway. I always run this last bit despite my advancing age. If I self-identified as a man I could saunter it like DH does. Of course, everyone else would then have to see me as a man too I suppose....

ATailofTwoKitties · 30/01/2018 14:00

I have a gender-neutral name right down to the spelling and title.
I work from home.
I don't think my colleagues would notice any difference. In fact, I don't know if many of them know my sex, which is a very odd thought.

Do I get to miss going for my smear test next week, though?

stoneagefertilitydoll · 30/01/2018 13:54

I don't honestly think I could - I'm just entirely the wrong shape.

Lets say I had some major surgery, so I just looked like a slightly oddly shaped, very short man, then I'd need a few new clothes (I do buy women's t-shirts/jeans, for boob/hip room without excessive baggyness), otherwise, without leaning on stereotypes (I have longer hair, but it's just in a ponytail all day - like many men, I do do most of the 'wife-work'), nothing would need to change, and realistically, no-one's ever going to read me as a man anyway.

Personally I think that therapy would help a lot of people. Through my late 20s I learned to live with being short and dumpy, and fairly masculine personality-wise, that it was never going to change, and to just be a peace with it.

Realistically, most trans people are never going to pass as the opposite sex, and I wonder if rather than striving for it so hard, they might not be better served with coming to terms with their sexed bodies and interests. I know that it won't work for everyone, but I think that finding mental calm and acceptance has to be better than mutilating yourself chasing something you can never be.

Note that I'm not saying people should be 'converted' - they can still wear what they like, be interested in what they like, just be helped to accept that's fine, they don't need to do anything more drastic.

ChemistryGeek · 30/01/2018 13:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MerryMarigold · 30/01/2018 13:47

I could pee up a tree (after surgery). Always, always wanted to do that.

MarSeeAh · 30/01/2018 13:45

You could always take your top off and sit there topless. When he starts spluttering, just look him in the eye and say you’re a man. What’s he going to say to that, without seeming transphobic. 😬

Take my semmit off?! In January?! In Scotland?! I'd get a chill.

Of course, I could always self-id as being in Australia.

OP posts:
UpstartCrow · 30/01/2018 13:44

If they bring in gender self ID I'm going to use the mens toilets. All the perverts will be in the women's.

whoputthecatout · 30/01/2018 13:43

I could have dumped imposter syndrome confident that as a man, I am always qualified to do anything I have applied for, even though I only meet half the criteria.

Am retired now and for the first time in my life as a woman couldn't give a flying wotsit what people think of me and have no imposter syndrome.

So, fellow posters, eventually it doesn't matter - but it's too late then to take advantage of it anyway.

BlindYeo · 30/01/2018 13:41

I would be using the other public toilets.

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