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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bluestocking lock in!

991 replies

QuentinSummers · 29/01/2018 22:00

Posted a whole thing on the last thread and it was locked!

Last thread here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3062013-The-Bluestocking-is-open-for-business
Here's my post replying to Moth
Thats an interesting article moth. Best not on the board or MRAs would be all over it!
I was wondering today, hopefully, if the news about darts getting rid of the girls means the overton window is shifting and maybe p0rn will become less acceptable?
If not all this hooha about F1 girls and the presidents club is just tinkering on the edges.

OP posts:
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WomaninGreen · 16/05/2018 15:20

MissMoneyPlant, it's because of wanting to leave London and wondering what the norm would be in terms of walking, jogging after dark.

nice green spaces being closed at 4pm in winter is a shame for me but hopefully something that won't happen in other areas.

MissMoneyPlant · 16/05/2018 15:00

I've lived in a few places. Most of them didn't have completely fenced off parks, so not possible to lock. When I lived in greater London the nearest big park was only ever locked to pedestrians during deer shooting season...

Um, why do you want to know? Just curiosity? :)

WomaninGreen · 16/05/2018 14:04

Thanks Waddle, they went away

there's a very specific drunken singing that seems to happen on football nights...but every night seems to be a football night!

I have a weird question that I will ask here because I'm a bit shy not knowing the answer....and you hopefully won't take the mick!

I'm a lifelong Londoner. Open spaces and parks are all "locked up" at dusk, or they have been where I've lived. Is that normal across the country? I am guessing not?

When I work late shifts, I find people walking their dogs through regular roads here, because they haven't really got any other options.
So I just wondered.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 14/05/2018 00:20

Well I hope they STFU so you can sleep!

WomaninGreen · 14/05/2018 00:13

Waddle, it's not hot weather level bad thank goodness.

We're not in the centre, just very close to a lot of pubs and to where night buses terminate.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 13/05/2018 23:51

missmoney i recognise your analysis of the weakness of trialling treatments from my former life in clinical research. The desire uncomplicated patients are big problem! (I also have a hobbyhorse about the self selecting nature of clinical trials which I will refrain from Grin)

Pratchet Gin

I'm off to see if black books is on netflix, it's a favourite but I cba to get the dvd out retro
The piano is the first to pop into my head Grin

woman maybe the heat? Hotter weather always seems to result in drunk groups in city centre ime (aka Glasgow)

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 23:29

Rufus I didnt see that

Has there been football on tonight? The number of random drunks walking by yelling is quite high for a Sunday night.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/05/2018 21:17

Making me want to rewatch it now Smile

Can anyone remember what the 'gender' thread was about

Its gone as 'it wasnt in the spirit '

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 21:16

I will have to look for a little book of calm now.....!

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 21:15

Oh and now I see gourmet popcorn in the shops (don't do cinema) I always think "does it produce some kind of dizzying high?" Grin

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/05/2018 21:14

Dh says its not exactly but its pretty similar

I think he is wrong

We will have a screaming match about it when i can work up the energy Grin

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/05/2018 21:13

woman

Its exactly the same Grin

It honestly drives ds1 mad

We took it on holiday with...just so we could quote it at him

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/05/2018 21:12

Favourite episode is when they go on holiday woman

I would love a book shop like Bernards...id be just like him Grin

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 21:12

Ive never seen the little book of calm
Does it actually contain some of the stuff Manny says?

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 21:11

Rufus the way MN displays, I see the first line of a reply, then click and see the rest

So I saw your first line and was going to reply "which one of you bitches wants to dance" Grin

I was never interested in that show for years...I only found it when I was off sick and it was on All4 and I needed some comedy. As soon Manny swallowed the book, I knew I was on to a winner. I don't know why it didn't appeal before.

I also particularly like it when Bernard is won over by the travel writer and wants to give him the best biscuit......the body language! It's just genius. I also like the quote "everyone knows I'm going to die upside down in a pub toilet" but can't recall the episode. I'm going to have to watch it again.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/05/2018 20:52

I love Black books

The best episode is the first

Dh favourite bit is when he swallows the little book of calm (to reallly piss ds1 off we bought it and read it when he is tense or angry...it sends him into an absolute rage)

My favourite bit is when Bernard asks the group of skinheads 'which one of you bitches wants to dance'

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 16:41

Prachet, after watching Black Books - a recent discovery for me - I call Alka Seltzer "fizzy good....make feel nice" a la Bernard Black.

I've actually never used it because it has caffeine in. It's amazing how much stuff has caffeine in Confused

womanformallyknownaswoman · 13/05/2018 16:20

However so much about the whole system, the whole conceptualistaion of "mental illness" is messed up!

When I realised that most of those who get labelled as mentally ill are having normal responses to being targeted and bullied, whilst those causing them to feel crazy actually were the problem was a great day. And those who are the problem never get into the MH system except as some of those doing the diagnosing!! The whole thing is just gas lighting on the whole.

I've had the same issue with mindfulness

Don't get me started on mindfulness - if anyone else suggests it I will put their eyes out!! It's not a one size fits all but all it takes is an academic to make his mark by saying it's the next best thing, and woosh, we are all supposed to fall in mindless line.

The problem is the whole health system don't like smart people who say NO - especially women - so they get treated like whistleblowers.

I said recently to my T that there's hundreds pf people who have jobs on the back on my distress - she didn't like it one bit and winced out loud, but took it - like she's paid to!

Psychology" is the remit of psychologists, that patients are sent off to see... other staff range from fairly informed (off their own backs and interest) to glorified prison guards who appear to have had their humanity removed as part of the training. (Which raises another question about the seemingly common psychotic delusion that agents of the state are monitoring the person and poisioning them..!)

Yep they're onto it - it actually is happening. That's when I feel like taking to hills and going to live in a cave - far safer!!

And CBT - well that should be consigned into the annals of history as a huge practical joke

do you think I might be trans?

oh goddess no - just finding your voice and realising it's not you that's mad but them :)

Need a top-up?

Pratchet · 13/05/2018 12:56

Thank you Green

MissMoneyPlant · 13/05/2018 11:24

Gosh - do you think I might be trans? I really feel it's the real me to lean on the bar with a pint and lecture you all at length... Grin Blush

(ps. Recently read the original, fascinating paper on this study - don't think things have changed much in 45 years, except patients would now be left to fend for themsleves after being pathologised)

MissMoneyPlant · 13/05/2018 11:15

WomaninGreen Is it about underfunding or is it that mental health services will always operate in a certain way?

I think (this is a pub, yeh? I can lean on the bar and say "I reckon..." without having conducted a sociological study? Grin) that attitudes, at least of individual professionals, are gradually changing. Probably just as a result of time passing and the general societal attitude to emotions and experiences changing, a sort of general awareness of psychological factors even if pop psychology. But there's no services to offer, the whole system is just fire-fighting crises.

However so much about the whole system, the whole conceptualistaion of "mental illness" is messed up! And I really think (um, surely there's psychological evidence for this?!) that people in general sort of take the path of least resistance. So it's easier to believe someone doesn't really need help/go along with other professionals unpleasant views in order to dismiss someone, if it takes a patient off your (impossibly huge) caseload. Actually, there's a thing, they call it "splitting" - supposedly a manipulative act of behalf of the patient who divides staff which causes problems with the staff team. In practice IME this seems to be that some staff have compassion and want to help whilst others are punitive and blaming, and the two can't agree on how to treat the patient... (Read a great blog on this from an ex social worker, who was given all the "difficult" patients but found that treating them humanely and relating to them made them not difficult... and apparently their unflattering views of other staff members were surprisingly perceptive!)

... it was only about ten years afterwards that I started to see studies being done into that problem, often people were being advised to do it when it made them worse, but it takes X amount of time for enough experiences to inform studies and build data etc.

I've had the same issue with mindfulness. Apparently not good for people who've suffered trauma. (Also hate this assumption that people must be thinking wrong/not capable of reflecting on stuff/not trying hard enough. That's how I ended up with incredulous staff baffled that I "have insight" and am fairly sensible about thoughts/reasoning/decisions - "But why are you still not ok?" !!!) I suspect it's the same process at work as that which dismisses women's health issues - the patient is seen as being difficult/making a fuss if something doesn't work.

But, the main problem seems to be that services are simply not designed or run from a psychologically informed perspective. There's stacks of evidence - including really basic stuff about human interaction - that is just ignored. "Psychology" is the remit of psychologists, that patients are sent off to see... other staff range from fairly informed (off their own backs and interest) to glorified prison guards who appear to have had their humanity removed as part of the training. (Which raises another question about the seemingly common psychotic delusion that agents of the state are monitoring the person and poisioning them..!)

Read a great article, but I can't seem to find it now... It explained the problem with needing empirical evidence that a treatment is effective to justify funding it. Say you've invented a new therapy for depression - you have to test it on a large number of patients who have "pure" depression, no complicating factors (potential confounding variables) like other mental health diagnoses, self-harm, being in an abusive relationship... think they have to take into account socioeconomic group as well. And the therapy has to be delivered in such a way that it's the same for everyone in the trial. So therapies that are very concrete and manualised have an advantage over those that take into account circumstances and are more individualised, and a therapy CBT may appear very successful for this unusual subgroup of patients with a specific clear issue and non-complicated lives, but doesn't necessarily translate to the real world.

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 10:53

Hey Pratchet

It's okay, you never need a reason to say those words. Grin

Pratchet · 13/05/2018 00:05

Apropos of nothing except five whisky on the rocks

Pratchet · 13/05/2018 00:04

Hi, and SMASH THE PATRIARCHY

WomaninGreen · 13/05/2018 00:02

Is it about underfunding or is it that mental health services will always operate in a certain way?

Weird thing, when I was diagnosed with depression years ago, I told my doctor that meditation and mindfulness made things worse. She was sensible enough not to judge but it was only about ten years afterwards that I started to see studies being done into that problem, often people were being advised to do it when it made them worse, but it takes X amount of time for enough experiences to inform studies and build data etc.

So even if there was more funding, is there an inevitable time lag? And would I trust some kind of "wellness" service? I don't think I would but I am just one person, obvs. Much as I'd like an extra secret superhero identity Grin

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