Why is the definition of a woman so confusing these days?

Well I guess this has been useful. So long and thanks for all the fish.

Common sense has been working out great so far, right?

I'm still not over the giant bloke who's playing on a women's Aussie football team who's already broken one player's leg and people were still banging on about transphobia when he wasn't allowed to be part of the draft for the women's league.

hoardes of predatory men saying anything they need to say to get into the ladies' loos, and that no-one will have the ounce of intelligence required to find a legal way to stop them if they do.

I'm sure there must be a legal way of excluding specific men when all men can legally self id as women and it's completely illegal to discriminate on the grounds of gender identity? Common sense will definitely prevail. Right?

1984 is definitely worth a read.

(Kinda irrelevant but book recommendations would be less frustrating than trying to counter the waffly "oh I'm sure if will be fine" stuff.)

I'm definitely going to reread 1984. I did a few years ago but want to again soon. An audiobook would be great. I'll look at audible I think.

Rather than thinking it through to it's most extreme conclusion which - let's face it - is hugely implausible.

Rat Only just picked up your response to my point. Contrary to it being implausible, as others have pointed out, it is already happening. And that's without the proposed changes to the GRA coming into law.

To take your view on implausibility is like putting a cushion over your head and going "can't hear you, lah lah lah lah"

I think Rat is deliberately goady but perhaps it's been a worthwhile conversation in some ways. Not least, I haven't read 1984 but I've enjoyed the excerpts Pencils has given.

Snap Angry!

but it would be prudent to step out of the way and allow those who're a bit more street smart to prepare for what happens if their starry eyed "oh I just think people are nice really" view doesn't quite work out as hoped.

YY. As you've acknowledged that you don't really care about the trans issue personally either way, perhaps you could be a dear and do this, rather than grandstanding across multiple threads about how you want to be persuaded there is a problem. That is called "sealioning".

I'm thinking trolly sealion, but if we assume that Rat is sincere then hey, most people who're that selfish don't admit it in public so points for that I guess.

I care very much about minimising harm to women and girls.

Quite a feat if one doesn't actually know what a woman or a girl is.

"I'm selfish in my interest really; I'm trying to maximise my chances of coming out of this on the right side of history."

That's such a revealing phrase. It's not about doing what you believe to be right, to the best of your ability, in the knowledge that all humans have their flaws and get things wrong even with the best of intentions. Using that knowledge to gain a bit of humility as you try to do the best you can.

It's all about how you want other people to perceive you.

Then why the fuck are we all here wasting our precious energy on your navel-gazing woman-hating doublethinking gaslighting wank?

This.

So basically, oh don't worry about it-I'm sure everything will be fine. There'll be checks and balances. Not a big deal.

I think you're deliberately goady anyway, so there's that. You're just playing devils advocate for shits and giggles. Like an MRA would.

Are you a better feminist than me then Ereshkigal? I didn't think it was a competitive sport.

You're giving plenty of evidence that you don't actually give a fuck about women and girls. So I'm going on that.

I absolutely appreciate it is happening UpABitLate. I don't have an answer to that, or a way to resolve it

Then why the fuck are we all here wasting our precious energy on your navel-gazing woman-hating doublethinking gaslighting wank?

I'm out.

Are you a better feminist than me then Ereshkigal? I didn't think it was a competitive sport.

Bertrand, forgive me, I have answered your questions specifically previously, although I appreciate I cannot and have not answered every question aimed in my direction. Which question was it in particular? I answered specifically quite recently why I believed what I do about organised sport - because I'm quite heavily involved in it.

Um, being a feminist, engaging in discussions, the usual stuff. I care very much about minimising harm to women and girls.

Course you do.

@Bertrand

Mine too, but that was a different thread so apparently it doesn't count.

And you can't protest either the male behaviour or the policy or law as affirming biological sex has become a hate crime. Can you grasp that?

God, are we post-language now?

Yup, seems so.

Great, so about that number...