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Original poster

All current rape and sexual assault cases to be reviewed - BBC

207 replies

UpABitLate · 27/01/2018 09:57

here

This raises a massive amount of questions and will be taken by many quarters to mean that most accusations are malicious and that lots of men are in prison for nothing / can be sent to prison on a "woman's word" (the evidence is fitted to make sure of that).

There is a line in the article which says:

"It also begs the question of why the review is to rape and sexual assault cases when many believe the problems of disclosure are systemic, he added."

I think this just shows up that our justice system has deep issues and worst in the area of sexual offences. We seem unable to "get it right" and the entire thing is already balanced on a foundation of laws evolved from property law, a societal tendancy to disbelieve victims, and here by procedural cock-ups.

I also note that new evidence that weakens cases does not mean it didn't happen - but of course this is how it will be taken. Undermining victims massively.

And yes - why only these types of cases when the problem is systemic? Because of an underlying perception, again, that women and girls lie (them being the majority of victims in court).

I think we need an overhaul of how approach sex crime. Trying to tackle it in our adversarial system, with the cultural underpinnings we have, is just not working. These crimes are effectively legal, the difficult in prosecuting is so high. It's only really if there's lots of evidence of other simultaneous crimes (other physical harm from violence, threats with weapons that are found, murder) that our laws are suitable.

Other countries have an inquisitorial approach, maybe we need to look at that.

And the agencies involved in all of this need to sort their shit out. On the one hand we have withheld evidence, on the other hand we have warboys. The system is not working for lots of people.

OP posts:
UpstartCrow · 27/01/2018 11:15

When adult men can walk away from raping underage children, then yes the system is biased in their favour.

We expect men to lie in court, honest rapists plead guilty.

McTufty · 27/01/2018 11:11

I am not a criminal lawyer so might be very wrong, but I’m also hoping that this exercise might result in proper disclosure in advance of trials with the result that fewer trials will collapse due to the prosecution failures, and the jury will have the opportunity to decide.

But yes, this problem is an issue not limited to rape and sexual assault cases. The criminal justice system is on its knees and barely fit for purpose.

KateSheppard · 27/01/2018 11:11

Even if you have a woman's word, DNA evidence, a previous malevolent pattern of behaviour from the accused AND a whole fuck load more women's words ... society will still, much more often than not, contort itself to find a way to believe the man.

At the core of our society and justice system seems to be the belief that women will make up lies about men on a whim, like a toddler. What isn't seen is the agonising that many women experience around reporting, especially rape and sexual assault, but also D.V.

"What if it was a misunderstanding?" "We were on a date, maybe he didn't know I didn't want it?" "He's really a good man, how can I do this to him?" "Was that really bad enough to ruin his whole life over?" "He did it in front of everyone at the work do, so it couldn't be that bad, he's a good guy really." "He was drunk, he didn't mean it, he's not normally like that." "He has a wife and kids, I can't put them through this." "He's so lovely, usually, this would just break his heart." "He's family, I can't do this to my family." "He's such a good dad, I can't do this to the kids."

If anything, women are too nice. Too "honest". Too concerned about others' feelings. Too reluctant to report. Too reluctant to condemn the "nice man" for the not so nice thing he did. We see this in mumsnet threads every. single. day.

Men have no idea how good they've got it. Can you imagine if women stopped giving two shits about others' feelings and spoke the bare honest truth? The justice system would collapse overnight.

PatriarchyPersonified · 27/01/2018 11:08

UpaBitLate

The authorities are deliberately reinforcing the "women and girls are vindictive liars" attitude.

That's simply not true. I think the media are doing that by focussing on this so much, not the authorities.

I completely agree that the problem with selective/late disclosure should be addressed across all categories of crime, not just sexual assault/rape.

Even if it was though, that doesn't change the fact that there have been cases where evidence has been deliberately suppressed in order to secure a rape conviction. We can only speculate as to why that would be, but I'm sure there are plenty of theories out there.

Now that doesn't automatically mean the complainant is lying in every instance, but it is shocking and makes a mockery of a judicial system that is supposed to be impartial and work on the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

QuentinSummers · 27/01/2018 10:55

100% agree with you OP. And very pleased the correspondent pointed out that disclosure issues are systematic.

Original poster
UpABitLate · 27/01/2018 10:47

Yes -

This is all heavily underpinned by very deeply held societal ideas about men & women & sex offences.

I don't imagine that any juries will be prepared to convict now, in all but the most extreme cases. And the fact it is all crimes, but the authorities are looking into sex crimes, implies that there is a good reason for this which will be taken to be that most of them are dodgy.

The authorities are deliberately reinforcing the "women and girls are vindictive liars" attitude and I don't know why. They must have their reasons. I suspect they want to go back to the old days where only the most serious indisputable perfect victim crimes got to court? The rest are very expensive and difficult for them and make their stats look shite.

OP posts:
AuntFidgetWonkhamStrongNajork · 27/01/2018 10:25

I'm annoyed because the review only comes after 'those poor boys were let off after those nasty women lied' about what happened but where is the outrage at the lack of cases coming to court in the first place and the ridiculously low rate of conviction on the slim chance the case gets that far?

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