Please do Scottish self-id consultation (even if not Scottish)

Sorry didn't mean that to be dismissive. I meant better options for those who are not religious obviously.

I think there is work being done on some GC guidance for this so if you are struggling there will be better options than using a religious template.

horseymum Now, you may disagree with many things they say about some things, I am not entering into a discussion about that.

Nor me, let's be strategic

This consultation has been sent to loads of religious orgs and churches. I counted them up a while back and out of all the orgs specifically asked for a response around half are religious (mostly Christian).

Both Scottish and UK governments care far more about the views of the church than they do the views of women. There are religious exceptions in the GRA (CofE don't have to marry trans couples, ok to discriminate against transmen for priesthood, rabbis, imams etc). There are no proposals to mess with these at all.

There are no exceptions in the GRA that protect women's safety or wellbeing.

We do have exceptions that protect women but they are in the Equality Act. They are already weak and rarely used and it's getting harder to use them all the time because the onus is on the service provider to show that use of an exception is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim and increasingly, any legitimate concerns raised by women are immediately framed as transphobia.

There is no analysis in this consultation of how these proposals will interact with the equality act with regards to women. This is a shocking failure of their equality impact assessment.

So if you disagree with these proposals, please make your voice heard loudly through your church. They'll listen to you more than they will to us.

I'm sure we disagree profoundly on some aspects of trans if you're coming from a religious rather than a feminist viewpoint. We can debate that (or not) until the cows come home once this emergency is dealt with.

Done it. I also got a bit carried away with the caps about their INABILITY TO TELL SEX FROM GENDER!!! Agh!

Reluctant to start posting on this issue but The Christian Institute are campaigning against this as well and will be producing guidance on some ways of respoding to the consultation for those on their mailing list. Now, you may disagree with many things they say about some things, I am not entering into a discussion about that. However, they are very much for free speech and the ability to say things which others disagree with, and have actually campaigned alongside some groups such as athiests and I think stonewall to keep free speech as a country where you are not allowed to disagree with people, including on the trasgender issue, is a scary one indeed, for Christians, athiests, and everyone except the prevailing ruling opinion. I am surprised to have found some people I totally agree with on this section as I would not count myself as a feminist (I didn't think!)

Done.

Bump

YY ItsAll, the equality impact assessment was shockingly bad! There's guidance here on what they're supposed to be doing.

The one year/two year thing is only if parties agree on the financial and children issues after the required separation. If you don’t agree on these, then you cannot divorce without going through a lengthy court process.

Is this the same for GRC as a cause for divorce? I think it must be - if dad gets a GRC and wants to be ‘mum’ and the child wants to stay with actual mum, then the couple would have to sort that out before divorce would be granted, for example.

A particular highlight of that consultation nfor me was the impact assessment of the impact on women

Done. it's helpful for getting thoughts in order.

But I have to say the consultation is one whole cool-aid soaked nightmare. Did Stonewall write it for them?

Done.

There was a question (paraphrasing) that asked whether a person should require spousal consent before applying/being issued with gender recognition cert.

I said no, spousal agreement shouldn’t be required. But it should be grounds for immediate divorce.

Done

It's ludicrous - the thing that 'peak trans'd' me over all this was when I read an article stating that there would (of course) be exceptions to the legislation so that a woman / girl self ID'ing as male would And could not be considered male in order to inherit title or lands. That cleared up just who they're willing to throw under the bus on this one.

I used a lot of shouty caps. I also used a throwaway gmail account.

It was the divorce question that made me see red. Sure, force people to stay married to people they don't want to be married to any more for longer than would otherwise be the case. I'm sure the fact that most of the people transitioning when married are men and therefore most of the people unable to get a quick divorce will be women is totally coincidental.

Sexnotgender absolutely - the confirmation bias in the questions is shocking

My house identifies as being in Scotland, but only on cold days.

I’ll do this later, I glanced at it yesterday and it’s so poorly constructed.

I live abroad but I self identify as a Scottish resident so entered that I live in Scotland. Might give more weight to my opinions.

done. thanks for highlighting

Although the Tories appear to have quietly shelved their GRA, it was inevitable that if the change was hailed as progressive in Westminster, there would be a Bill in Holyrood as well. But - now the Westminster one may well be on ice, what happens here now? I know the standard rhetoric is that we're all progressive and will buy into this, but the fact a gender critical article got into the National (shortly followed by an 'everything will be fine and men already access women's spaces' Bella Caledonia article to remind people how progressive we are) does indicate that not everyone is on board. If the issue stays high up the agenda then we can expect more people to start writing articles on it and there may be an actual debate.

On the Wings thread he said that there were SNP politicians concerned about this behind the scenes. I was at a youth LGBT event at the Festival of Politics last year chaired by Christine Grahame and when someone mentioned toilet access she seemed genuinely surprised and not particularly in favour. I know there is the 'loyalty clause', and at the moment people aren't breaking rank, but Brexit has shown us that there are SNP figures who will disagree with the party (although not yet at the point of rebelling in votes).

The Scottish Bill may be close to a done deal, but the SNP have shown themselves able to respond to shifts in public opinion. Enough gender critical people filling in the consultation might give them an 'out' if they want to back-track or amend the proposed legislation. And although we don't have elections coming up here, if the SNP see UK parties suffering because of this issue, it might make them think.

So so sick of this 'right-on' look how tolerant and cool and open minded we are bullshit.

Done, as with others I really struggled not to leave deeply sarcastic answers;
Should people be allowed to legally self define as non binary?
No
Why?
Because there is no such fucking thing - you'd be as well asking if people should be allowed to self ID as unicorns or dragons

Done.
I think it is worth doing as the numbers could have an impact. The likelihood of anyone's comments being picked up - zero IMO.