Trans friendly thread - a follow up!

Great thread Quentin btw you've actually inspired me to go back and read the original thread now which I had previously written off as a GF sealioning bunfight! I always liked curry's posts I've not come across pigeon and harv before.

I gather from twitter that it was the 'labour against transphobia' FB page that removed Debbie, not the Labour Party.

As far as I can make out from twitter Debbie's 'crimes' are that being sane and intelligent she has worked out that the current TA activism 'transwoman are woman' 'cotton ceiling' 'my penis is female' is doing absolutely nothing for her aim, which is to be genuinely socially accepted by woman and go about her daily life free of ridicule and discrimination. In fact if anything this 'movement' is rolling back her rights. Because of this she'd like to discuss with TA's if self-ID is really the way forward, she'd also like to discuss with woman what their objections are and how a solution can be found. As the trans right movement appears to have been co-opted by misogynistic, homophobic lunatics who care nothing about Debbie or her rights and even less for woman, they are against this. Debbie has also admitted on twitter that since she doesn't actually have a GRC she is in fact male.

Basically Debbie has critical thinking skills, this is a big no, no.

I think Debbie herself is on here if she wants to correct anything I've put.

Actually, you are right. I think it was just the FB group. I find twitter difficult to understand ...

So what was Hayton's crime, suggesting that maybe some of what they were doing might be a teensy bit illegal?

I thought she'd been removed from the labour against transphobia group rather than the party, but haven't been keeping up so may be wrong!

At the end of the previous thread, reference was made to a Transwomen who has been ejected from the LP. Datun provided a link to Debbie Hayton's Twitter

mobile.twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/955417650309599233

Do we know if there have been other expulsions?

Love love all around

I hope no-one minds - I've lifted this from the thread on Ron Liddle's article.

I thought in the spirit of finding common ground it might be helpful to focus on the overlap area. We are all of us quite happy to "accept gender variation" in the sense of crossing over society's set of stereotypes in whatever way suits us. That's an enormous area of overlap.

What we don't buy into - both "rad" fems and transwomen who're uncomfortable with self-ID - is treating gender as a thing, and pretending biological facts don't exist.

It's also helpful as a picture in getting a handle on exactly how feminist perspectives differ from conservative religious views. Both accept biological sex as real, but (contrary to the twitter rantings of some TRAs) feminists don't see it as determining your behaviour, abilities and rightful roles, whereas conservative religious types do buy into determinism.

Let's eat, grandma.

vs

Let's eat grandma!

(Let's not)

This is why , are important.
I'm sorry I just called you both a pigeon curry

Thank you all for your contributions pigeon curry and harv

It must be difficult to be discriminated against and ignored by people who pretend to be your own just because you disagree with them. I'm sorry that has happened.

Oh, and Harv!

Lovely post Quentin. Agree with it whole heartedly.
What a positive start to Friday. Thank you!
And thanks to Curry and Pigeon for sharing.

I was reading the end of the last thread at insomnia o'clock and did think that, ironically, the thread had genuinely become a trans friendly thread, just not in the way the op intended or believes. In the sense of 'true trans.'

It's so clear from that thread that those who shout transphobia really, really haven't a clue what they're referring to.

I think the greatest thing I've taken away from it is that it's really important to clarify with less knowledgeable people at the start of a discussion that 'trans' is not the homogeneous group the media and stonewall and many tra want us to believe.

It really warmed my heart, inbetween all the pain and utter fucking tripe. (I withheld searching twitter too, your reactions were enough!)

So thank you, especially curry, pidgeon and Harv

Well said . Me too. Its a sanity saver!