Self-id isn't women vs transwomen. It is daughters, mothers, wives, sisters vs predatory men.

slight correction, Lilly Madigan is the womens office for a CLP (constituency labour party - ie local area) and not the Labour Party itself. So not necessarily a position from which you'd generally expect national news media to be covering what they say.

but in all other respects, Rabbit yes, I don't think the general public have a clue what is going on.

Lily Madigan isn't THE women's officer for the Labour Party, though, just one particularly ineffective officer for a constituency Labour Party. I suspect most people haven't heard of any other CLP women's officers either.

I seem to know several people who had not even heard of transgenderism till I mentioned it. I find this hard to credit, but it genuinely seems to have whizzed past heads in a sort of 'who are the Beatles anyway?' fashion.

One friend thought 'it' was 'something to do with that Olympic runner Castor Something, wasn't it, poor girl'?

Another (and we're talking CEO level here, so not dim) murmured that he'd heard that there were a lot of conditions we used not to know about, and the company probably had policies on them these days, glad it wasn't his job, sounded bloody complicated.

You would expect most parents to have heard it mentioned by their children, but honestly, the younger ones probably all believe that actual sex change is possible (because they've been told it is), and the teenagers look uneasy because they know that you aren't supposed to discuss it.

So I'm dubious about surveys that say that '25% of people support changes to the GRA, 50% think it's fine as is, 25% think it goes too far', unless someone can prove that the people surveyed knew what the question was.

Transgender women in sports are my 'thing'

Look up Fallon Fox v Tammika Brents.

www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/a-bloody-punch-to-the-nose-and-you-quickly-realize-ladies-cant-compete-agai

With sports they think I've been at the alternative news, of the Freddie Starr ate my hamster variety. I have been laughed at for believing such obviously fake news. I show reliable reporting and photos of the sportspeople and the overwhelming reaction is disbelief because something so obviously wrong can't be happening. They kind of disengage because it is so implausible. Men are far more outraged about the sporting "unfairness" than women according to my anecdata

I get this reaction a lot..people thinking I have fell for 'fake news'. They are horrified when they realize its actually happening. Rapists in female prisons has been the worst one for me. Was literally laughed at and called a loon over that one. They sharp changed their tune though

My DH is in the knee flashing , funny handshake brigade. He is very aware of the dangers of self ID. I wonder if I self ID as a man and try to join , how much sh%t it would stir up , how many men would realise what was going on and join the fight got against self identifying

I don't think we need to make those arguments. People in general know TIMs are not women when they see it.

Recently I have been wondering why there isn't a backlash, why everyone except MN is going along with the TRA rhetoric. I have a wide range of friends, peers and colleagues. They know I am a "safe space", I won't hate on your beliefs, I will always want to understand. So I have been testing the waters to see where people stand and why.

The results? They have no fucking clue whatsoever about trans anything.

I ask what they think about the weightlifting, kickboxing, cycling, basketball wins by TIMs. I ask what they think of Labour's new women's officer (without saying anything about the women's officer being a TIM).

With sports they think I've been at the alternative news, of the Freddie Starr ate my hamster variety. I have been laughed at for believing such obviously fake news. I show reliable reporting and photos of the sportspeople and the overwhelming reaction is disbelief because something so obviously wrong can't be happening. They kind of disengage because it is so implausible. Men are far more outraged about the sporting "unfairness" than women according to my anecdata.

As for the Labour Party, well, Harriet Harman's women's officer isn't she? A bit loony sometimes but mostly sensible. What, she's not? Lily who?

Nobody outside terf and tra echochambers seems to have a clue that Lily exists, never mind being women's officer for the labour party. On reflection, why would they? She isn't in the mainstream media. I haven't heard her once this month on a news programme talking about the impact of brexit on women, the impact of the shortage of GPs and midwives (who are often women and are used by women), the impact on women of Syria, the Weinstein stuff, girl's attainment in exams compared to the world, state run childcare options, the England women's football team new manager. Nothing. She is nowhere.

She isn't doing the job of women's officer and so nobody outside the echo chambers has a clue she exists, never mind what she believes.

I would get a lot more sports stories in the press, which is always hard but maybe a photo of a TIM next to a standard female athlete will appeal to the papers.

I think we should demand that Lily does her bloody job! Ignore trans and ask her opinions on everyday politics that people care about. Her total lack of competence will soon come out, people will see that the emperor has no clothes.

Mainly because every debate is shut down.

It crosses parties and people. It just needs careful framing to get people on board. The main problem is no one realises how far reaching and damaging Self Id is.