Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

Someone mentioned changing sex to inherit a title. Delighted to post a link to the Tatler on this thread:
www.tatler.com/article/trans-toffs

If biology itself is seen as exclusionary amongst trans people, then transwomen are actually less useful even than men in representing women politically

How very true that seems to be in a certain L Madigan's case.

I don't think it applies to 'old-school' transwomen who don't bang on about biology being bigotry. But although they might well be much more useful reps of women, they are much less likely to elbow their way into such positions. (Apols here to Pidge, Curry etc. for effectively discussing you in the third person.)

notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/are-all-women-shortlists-transphobic/

Good article by Helen Saxby

Cont... that said, Labour don't seem to have learned anything at all from Brexit. I voted Remain but I could see that patronising potential Leave voters at best and tarring them as racist and ignorant at worst, will catch up with you in the end. Same with this. Everyone KNOWS that a man is not a woman. Everyone KNOWS rapists shouldn't be in women's prisons. Telling people that disagreeing with this makes them ignorant at best or evil transphobes who should die in a fire at worst, WILL catch up with Labour in the end.

Is it too much to hope for that he just doesn't have a clue about it yet, and when he actually understands self-ID is not what he think it is, that he will 'peak trans'? The same as everyone (bar the virtue vultures who are incapable of rational thought) does.

Sorry, Pidgeon, I think it is too much to hope for. (And I say this as someone on the left of the Labour Party who would otherwise support Corbyn). He knows. He'll prevaricate as best he can but he knows. Labour can now smell the chance of power and they know that Momentum (whose top brass are in favour of self-ID) is their best campaigning tool. At this point, Corbyn is triangulating as much as any other politician is, and is banking on a) keeping Momentum onside and b) that voters will prioritise the NHS, housing and anti-austerity over self-ID (which they probably will).

Corbyn made polite noises but isn't budging.

Good to see it being covered, though.

I’ve not watched marr yet but if the BBC are finally talking about it in anything other than a ‘yay, go Jazz’ way, then the tide may indeed be turning.

I wonder what happens about life insurance policies? Don't they currently ask for sex, age, etc? (Maybe they are already banned from discriminating on the grounds of male versus female biology, maybe it all comes under 'other relevant medical info', I don't know.)

Outlander

That's a very good question Outlander, not silly at all. From what I've gathered, transmen are reluctant to lose some sex based protections. For example, being housed in women only prisons. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and force a transman in to a men's prison against the will of the transman.

I'm not sure if the oldest son of a duke would forfeit the title. I would suspect not. The oldest daughter couldn't claim the title if she legally changed sex.

Morning. Anyone watch Marr? Ooooo. Interesting stuff about GRA.

I think, given the situation at the moment, that it would have been virtually impossible for JC to have said 'no' to that question.

I have a question about self-ID actually (possibly a silly one?). If you get your sex changed legally, does that then exempt you from rights available to your former sex? For a men changing his legal sex to female it doesn't matter so much since you're forfeiting very little (primogeniture, ffs), but what about women legally becoming men? Will they then lose their rights to stand on AWS, to enter women's toilets, and be housed in women's prisons?

Just to say sorry I wrote Linda's name wrong too

He has also just asked JC the same. JC said yes. But will talk to Linda Bellinham about her views and worries

Is it too much to hope for that he just doesn't have a clue about it yet, and when he actually understands self-ID is not what he think it is, that he will 'peak trans'? The same as everyone (bar the virtue vultures who are incapable of rational thought) does.

Foolishly hope Linda can talk some sense into him.

Being on the TERF list should be an ambition for all tbh. Great company

ShittyStick Yes, that happens too but in some cases when I've clicked through it actually tells me that I'm blocked.

AreYou Oh yes. I think that I'm in excellent company.
The ones that really get to me are those that will 'argue' for a while: i.e. spout mantras and then, when faced with reasoned arguments, will just go quiet and block.

Beatrice - there's a BlockBot on twitter - if a terfy tweet is reported to the blockbot, then you're added to it, and you're blocked by anyone that signs up to the blockbot. Something like that, anyway.

You're in good company though - I think @GiaGia (married to prof Brian Cox) was added years ago for talking biology.

I'm not on Twitter at all, but sometimes if I click a link to a tweet from here it tells me I'm not able to view this account or content. But if I Google the person I can find the tweet.

TheNerevarine Perhaps you're right, I'm really still conflicted. However, after hearing Corbyn this morning, I'm not optimistic. He can't really back down now, can he? It seems a done deal as far as Labour is concerned despite the legal uncertainties.

Interesting because in today’s Mail on Sunday, it states that Lily Madigan claims to be ‘only vaguely aware of a list’ Just to clarify - (as far as I know) I'm not on the list. I just meant some kind of bot block list. It's really weird because tweets from people you've never heard of are suddenly showing as not available and when you click through you find you've been blocked.

This has only happened to me since I've been openly 'TERFy' on Twitter.

I discovered today that I've been blocked by a lot of LP members with whom I have never interacted (including a certain women's officer)
Interesting because in today’s Mail on Sunday, it states that Lily Madigan claims to be ‘only vaguely aware of a list’ .

Scrolling back through Twitter posts and saw this article shared. It's from October 2017, and is about the researcher whose work into detransitioning was blocked by Bath Spa University.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html#ampshare=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html#ampshare=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html

Yes unfortunately she showed she didnt have a clue about what its all about, as she said something like, she had been watching itv transformation street, and believed no one would put themselves through that to get on a short list.

So completetly missing the point of self ID

Ah I must've misheard her then. In my defence I was too busy reading these threads during that segment

Good point Andrew Marr made. Why does JC want to talk if he's already made his mind up??

AlabamaShakes
She wasn't against it she was very much it's "they a tiny minority and they put themselves through so much, so why not?"

Andrew Marr then went on to ask the conservative He was interviewing about the self identifying bill, and whether a man who hasn't had surgery, but says he identifies as woman is a woman? go Andrew! I wasn't listening fully but I'm sure he used himself as an example.

He has also just asked JC the same. JC said yes. But will talk to Linda Bellinham about her views and worries. Andrew Marr said but if you have already decided what's the point?.

Watching Andrew Marr & almost wonder if JC understands self-ID. He plays it as empathy with someone who been through a huge trauma.