Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

Has anyone asked the muslim council of GB how they feel about this?

My DDs best friend is Muslim and cannot even come over to ours for a sleepover because I have a son....I cannot reconcile the islamic principle of dressing modestly and keeping yourself away from the leering of men can possibly be reconciled with the self ID transwomen - if boys are allowed into changing rooms on their own say so, boys with a fully functioning penis and who identify as lesbians to boot.....girls will no longer be allowed to attend co-ed schools. If single sex schools then fall, where will these young women go? DO trans rights trump religious rights, womens rights, lesbian rights - so again, a bloke (albeit in a dress) gets to stand at the top of the pile?

People saying they won't vote Labour anymore is terrifying. I understand leaving the party and explaining why, but by refusing to vote for the "least worst" option you are centring the trans bullshit over and above other issues that affect women.

This is the impossible corner these bastards have backed us into. 8 years into an austerity which women have borne 85% of. Barely any DV shelters left (regardless of whether they admit TIMs or not). Women re-abused in family court by their abusive partners because there's no legal aid any more. Creation of maternal poverty, leading to the highest removal of children into care. The list is endless.

And now we can't even vote for an anti-austerity party any more because it's determined to take away every single right women have ever won for themselves.

I feel as though rage just isn't enough.

Also disabled, also agree.

I'm not going to intentionally vote for any party that intends to fuck me over from any angle.

Battle axe I totally agree with this.

I disagree. (I'm also disabled.) If we don't force this to the top of the agenda now, "women" won't mean anything much, ever again in the UK.

Thank you for posting. I think there are some very disturbing questions about that group and what it is doing, why, and how it is going about it. I do think though we should be careful when talking about this to stick to facts, concerns and highlighting the problems, and avoid any personal comments or insults which just plays into the stereotypes. I understand people are angry. But the way forward is to find ways to open up the debate so the reasonable voices on both sides can find a way forward.

I disagree. (I'm also disabled.) If we don't force this to the top of the agenda now, "women" won't mean anything much, ever again in the UK.

I haven't yet made up my mind, although I honestly cannot see how I can bring myself to vote for a party that intends to bring in self-ID. I'm not sure that a party that plans to erase women as a protected class -and the implications of that are huge - apparently on the basis that 'Probably nothing bad will happen so let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best', can ever be seen as the less-bad option. Where loopholes and weaknesses exist they will be taken advantage of.

But let's not forget this is a Tory policy too. I'm sure they're watching this shit fest with interest but there's no guarantee they won't have self-ID as a policy too.

It sounded like it was (a) written by men, (b) written by unpleasant bullying people without a feminist bone in their body,

I think you've got it spot on with points a and b. There are genuinely awful people out there sadly. I think what most frustrates me is when genuine concern for the well being of dysphoric individuals is dressed up as transphobia. It's not transphobic to call for non-biased research into the long-term wellbeing of people who have transitioned and into the numbers who detransition, and to suggest that it is is enormously telling, imo.

Have you got the link, MissMoneyPlant?

People saying they won't vote Labour anymore is terrifying. I understand leaving the party and explaining why, but by refusing to vote for the "least worst" option you are centring the trans bullshit over and above other issues that affect women.

I disagree. (I'm also disabled.) If we don't force this to the top of the agenda now, "women" won't mean anything much, ever again in the UK.

TheNerevarine
I think they do believe it.

A brocialist sent me a link to a website called something like "shit TERFs say". It was horrendous, full of cruel, threatening, abusive language, stuff about killing trans people etc. It was essentially the (supposed) TERF version of the TRA threats/abuse.

It sounded like it was (a) written by men, (b) written by unpleasant bullying people without a feminist bone in their body, and/or (c) completely made up - how TRAs think we must think like them or something.

But if the handmaidens and allies think that's what we're saying....

'Terfs are posionous and don't want to debate!'

Isn't the TRA motto #nodebate#?

Or does 'asserting polite dissenting opinions' = harassment now? Oh wait, don't tell me, suspect I know the answer

If the Tories remain in power with no reasonable opposition, it will reach a point where it's not worth me living anymore.

As a disabled woman, the thing I find most terrifying, and most loathe TRAs for, is bringing down the political left.

People saying they won't vote Labour anymore is terrifying. I understand leaving the party and explaining why, but by refusing to vote for the "least worst" option you are centring the trans bullshit over and above other issues that affect women.

Oh god, that 'Block all TERFs, they only want to harass, not debate' comment, I mean... What the hell...? Do they genuinely believe this? We're the ones who are calling for debate.

Awful. Whole sections of politics are being commandeered by teenagers with severe MH problems.

Hello, I’m new here. I decided not to post this on twitter. This young woman is the person who actually set up the spreadsheet, and seems a bit fragile. But it gives an insight into mindset of the (mostly) students behind the Labour Against Transphobia hitlist I believe the word Taliban means “students”. I’ve supported Corbyn throughout but I believe the influx of students when he became leader has brought into the Labour Party the culture of No Platforming which has been so strong. “Remember these fuckers aren’t worth a damn” That’s a step on the way to killing fields and death camps.

Debbie Hayton is fabulous, and perfectly qualified to speak about this. Why isn't she being given more of a platform? (Oh yeah - far too reasonable. Bring back the pitchforks and 'hate speech'.)

Good one to share with people who are supporting on sympathy grounds. It makes it clear that it's not just a case of being "pro trans".

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/social-acceptance-trans-people-springs-our-relationship-society-and-works-both-ways

.

That link doesn’t work pam and I can’t find article browsing. Do I need sub?

Morning Star article by an ally. morningstaronline.co.uk/article/social-acceptance-trans-people-springs-our-relationship-society-

Redtoothbrush thanks for posting that. Can you remember who it is by?

Just need someone to leak the stats from the Labour party. Maybe a journalist with an inside source. I bet you 50p this turns up in Private Eye in a week or so

A little thread to remind you of the difference between liberal democracy and authoritarianism. Written for the US and other politics but equally valid here. Do not give up or give in.

G. Willow Wilson @ gwillowwilson
It may be time to start thinking about how we can effectively push back against authoritarianism once the last of the checks and balances have fallen.

It's a mistake to think a dictatorship feels intrinsically different on a day-to-day basis than a democracy does. I've lived in one dictatorship and visited several others--there are still movies and work and school and shopping and memes and holidays.

The difference is the steady disappearance of dissent from the public sphere. Anti-regime bloggers disappear. Dissident political parties are declared "illegal." Certain books vanish from the libraries.

The press picks a side. The military picks a side. The judiciary picks a side. This part should already feel familiar.

The genius of a true, functioning dictatorship is the way it carefully titrates justice. Once in awhile it will allow a sound judicial decision or critical op-ed to bubble up. Rational discourse is never entirely absent. There is plausible deniability.

People still have rights, in theory. The right to vote, to serve on a jury, etc. The difference is that they begin to fear exercising those rights. Voting in an election will get your name put on "a list."

So if you're waiting for the grand moment when the scales tip and we are no longer a functioning democracy, you needn't bother.

It'll be much more subtle than that. It'll be more of the president ignoring laws passed by congress. It'll be more demonizing of the press.

Until one day we wake up and discover the regime has decided to postpone the 2020 elections until its lawyers are finished investigating something or other. Or until it can 'ensure' that the voting process is 'fair.'

A sizable proportion of the citizenry will support the postponement. Yes, absolutely, we must postpone elections. The opposition is corrupt! Our leader is just trying to protect us! A dictator is never without supporters.

And hey, if we pull ourselves back from the brink and the midterms go ahead and the 2020 election is free and transparent and on time, you are cordially invited to point at me and laugh. Honestly. No one will be happier to be wrong than me. Fave this thread. I will laugh with you

Since people are panicking prematurely in my mentions: I'm not suggesting that this chain of events WILL happen. I'm saying that if we were to slide into authoritarianism, this is how it would look. Bc many USians seem to think autocracy looks like something off the Syfy channel.

(I actually think we are done a massive disservice by most western dystopian fiction for this reason. It lies about the way real dystopias actually look and feel.)

It used to be. The white nationalists adopted it to mean Jew and it has been all downhill from there.
Decent people still use it to mean hugs.